Preparedness for when

maryb

It was an extract from Dmitri Orlov's blog by the looks of it. He is fairly interesting in small doses - he lived through the collapse of the old Soviet Union and one of his key insights is that Russians were better prepared for that sort of hardship than Americans would be because they all had dachas (effectively large allotments) on the outskirts of the towns and were used to growing and preserving as much as possible to help mitigate the routine shortages.

But their collapse was in any event nothing like what an American collapse would be - people continued living in municipally owned and heated flats, the transport system continued to run etc. No-one got paid for months on end but they had basic shelter and food and survived by barter.

Frugalsod

maryb wrote: »

It was an extract from Dmitri Orlov's blog by the looks of it. He is fairly interesting in small doses - he lived through the collapse of the old Soviet Union and one of his key insights is that Russians were better prepared for that sort of hardship than Americans would be because they all had dachas (effectively large allotments) on the outskirts of the towns and were used to growing and preserving as much as possible to help mitigate the routine shortages.

But their collapse was in any event nothing like what an American collapse would be - people continued living in municipally owned and heated flats, the transport system continued to run etc. No-one got paid for months on end but they had basic shelter and food and survived by barter.

Yes and they did not have private debt that could drag people down with it. The US still has horrendous levels of private debt and the UK even more proportionately. So while it might be an old article not much has changed since either here or in the US.

The basic premise that we should live close to where we work and try and be as self reliant as possible is a good message, as is the live as frugally as possible in case you lose your job tomorrow and so it is not as catastrophic to you.

The thing to note is the trend and to be ahead of it. The economy is stagnant and on my trek today into the nearest city saw plenty of boarded up shops and empty restaurants in a city centre at lunch time. Shop keepers had commented that it was quiet and maybe people were shopping online more? Which I doubt because I am still getting notified of sales before Christmas and online deliveries are very quick.

[Deleted User]

Frugalsod wrote: »

There was an interesting study about using electric cars as a battery for household energy. Once there are enough electric cars or domestic batteries renewables are able to provide all of our power overnight during windless nights.

Of course, that would require replacing all our appliances, with DC versions.

moneyistooshorttomention

I can no longer tell what the state of the local economy is like around me. Being in a different area now - I don't know what it was like Before.

It recently struck me that I can see some of the local pubs are shut as I walk past them late evening - but well within pub opening hours. It was different pubs on another evening. I've been told they "take turns" to stay open throughout the whole evening and the locals don't expect to stay in one pub all evening - they are used to "doing the rounds". Just as well I don't fancy any of the local pubs anyway and the ones I would think of going in are a couple of miles away (and I'm told they are open as per normal).

There are a few shops shut - but then I am used to seeing that anyway - so cant tell if its more than used to be for here.

There aren't many restaurants - only a couple of reasonable ones and a couple of "dives". I think they all seem to shut early too from what I can see (so same again - of having to go further out to find ones I like and that will be open normal hours). I have a feeling I am going to have to get a lot more experimental with food than I am even - so I can do Middle Eastern one night, French the next, winebar the next, etc, etc - but at home.

Does anyone know a good "restaurant etc" cookbook with chapters for different countries that the home cook can use to duplicate the eating out experience? Now I wonder how I would fare if I opened one of those pop-up restaurants?

fuddle

Well done MTSTM's community in pulling together to keep their businesses afloat.

Doveling

Thank you to Jokerman, any way, perhaps he just thought that the article would interest all on this thread . Kind.

Agree,Fuddle, community working together to stay afloat.Brilliant.

If gas is on the out, how come certain folk are keen on pushing ahead with Fracking?:(

GreyQueen

Doveling wrote: »

Thank you to Jokerman, any way, perhaps he just thought that the article would interest all on this thread . Kind.

Agree,Fuddle, community working together to stay afloat.Brilliant.

If gas is on the out, how come certain folk are keen on pushing ahead with Fracking?

That'll be because they figure they can make easy money. Not turning out to be the case in the good old US of A. When people start jumping feet first into a new technology, you can bet your shirt that someone is about to lose theirs.:rotfl:

I think The Jokerman doesn't understand that the UK isn't a smaller version of the US with a few quaint accents, but maybe he's never even visited or tried running his ideas past a native Brit? A few hours of discussion would have revealed that you can't extrapolate across from a continent-spanning superstate to a small country just because we share (or mostly share) the same language.

Dmitri Orlov is an interesting read, as is JK Kunstler, on the idiocy of suburbia. We don't have anything like that here in the UK, due to a settlement pattern which predates the car by thousands of years.

A typical settlement pattern in lowland Britain is that most people are about 7-8 miles from a market town, which is a reasonable distance to walk/ take a horse and cart. With market towns therefore popping up about every 15 miles, interleaved with cities. My own city is mostly medieval, having its roots in the late 800s as a town. It sits in a skein of villages in rich farmland and has effectively served the market town function for them since before the Norman Conquest.

Area where settlement is low (I believe Northumberland has the lowest population density in England, nuatha may be able to confirm this) will have different patterns. Plus other areas such a Greater Manchester and Greater London are connurbations which have linked up many towns and villages into an urban and suburban envelope.

Then, once you look towards the uplands, and the mountains, you again see a different settlement pattern, due to less fertile land supporting a lower population density.

Frugalsod, I think it was you commenting about windpower in Shetland? Dunno what it's like where you live, but we have a lot less wind that the northern isles in my part of southern ingerland. It isn't comparing like with like.

nuatha

GreyQueen wrote: »

Area where settlement is low (I believe Northumberland has the lowest population density in England, nuatha may be able to confirm this) will have different patterns. Plus other areas such a Greater Manchester and Greater London are connurbations which have linked up many towns and villages into an urban and suburban envelope.

Then, once you look towards the uplands, and the mountains, you again see a different settlement pattern, due to less fertile land supporting a lower population density.

We do have the lowest population density (63/km2) but that is due to a mix of fertile valleys/plains and uplands. (And to having having higher density (wealthier) areas separated by act of parliament) Settlements in Northumberland are at least as likely to be dominated by where mining was feasible but the underlying medieval structure of villages and market towns is still apparent. The uplands all feed down to a market town, though that would be a rougher and longer journey than in the South. (Even long after the arrival of the railways, animals were often walked to the market, in the late 1800s geese could be walked up to 70 miles to Ovingham Goose Fair, though pre Beecham, many of the rural railways in this part of the world ended at a market town).

A lot of the research into windpower happens within a few miles of where I live, its getting more efficient but even the die hard optimistic scientist/engineer types doubt we could become self sufficient on wind generated electricity - let alone doing so within 20 years. (From recent discussions, there was a suggestion that it might be doable if we reduced consumption by 95%)

moneyistooshorttomention

GreyQueen wrote: »

Frugalsod, I think it was you commenting about windpower in Shetland? Dunno what it's like where you live, but we have a lot less wind that the northern isles in my part of southern ingerland. It isn't comparing like with like.

Sounded about right GreyQueen - ie your analysis of British settlement patterns.

I can understand where Frugalsod is coming from. If you live somewhere that has only standard volumes/frequency of wind and then you move to an area where you frequently spot wind turbines it sorta occurs to you (for the first time:o) that wind turbines get put places where the wind is a lot stronger/more frequent than normal = precisely because the wind is a lot stronger/more frequent than normal. Duh!...ahem....

On from that....areas with reasonable wind levels aren't likely to be the best place to site wind turbines:cool:..ahem.

If you don't live in an area with wind turbines and/or windmills then you never really think about how much wind there has to be to work the things:o. In mitigation - I plead that a lot of us don't realise that little fact...

Daylight dawns after a while that strong wind at frequent intervals isn't just a "temporary blip" of a particularly bad winter - maybe after you've had a workman tell you "You cant do something like that outside - it'll never last in our weather"...(my builder has learnt to explain things slowly and clearly to me LOL).

In reverse - I guess those who are optimistic about how much energy we could get from windpower live in very windy areas and don't realise most areas don't get that much of it.

fuddle

A lot of energy is required to get the turbines started but I have been led to believe that this power should come from the power stored from the turbine. If they aren't charged sufficiently the turbine takes power from the grid on start up.

Working in a school that had a small scale turbine I can say that I quite believe that - going by the loud unsettling clunk that would occur as the turbine stopped.