Preparedness for when

GreyQueen

Canals always did have some limitations, chiefly their slow speed - 4 pmh if memory serves making them unsuitable for time-critical deliveries like many foodstuffs. Pre-modern era, livestock, even things like geese, were transported via their own feet by drovers, taking them from one part of the country to another. There were also fleets of small sailing boats bringing things up-river from the coast, where the bigger vessels couldn't navigate. You'd use every possible method to avoid moving stuff on land.

I think pack animals would see a resurgence, too; pony or mule trains. We now have lhamas in the UK, but whether enough would survive a major upheaval to be useful would be questionable.

nuatha

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

I wonder if the canal system, using horse powered towing will be the way our goods will be distributed and the rivers again become the major arteries of commerce that they once were? I could also see a resurgence of steam railways if there was no electricity or diesel fuel available.

After the tourist lines are raided for their engines, there is likely to be attempts to build new, which may not go well - steam at pressure is dangerous. Though all those people who've endured being laughed at for playing with trains will become rather valuable.
Living in the North East I'm more familiar with rail than canals (we have a problem with lumps in the landscape that make canals less practical) but I am aware that huge stretches of canals that had been let go to being unusable and have since been restored for leisure use.

One thought that occurred, its possible to produce ethanol from sugar beet, we could take a lesson from Brazil for a future fuel source.

nuatha

GreyQueen wrote: »

Canals always did have some limitations, chiefly their slow speed - 4 pmh if memory serves making them unsuitable for time-critical deliveries like many foodstuffs. Pre-modern era, livestock, even things like geese, were transported via their own feet by drovers, taking them from one part of the country to another. There were also fleets of small sailing boats bringing things up-river from the coast, where the bigger vessels couldn't navigate. You'd use every possible method to avoid moving stuff on land.

I think pack animals would see a resurgence, too; pony or mule trains. We now have lhamas in the UK, but whether enough would survive a major upheaval to be useful would be questionable.

As you say canals aren't really suitable for perishables, and rely on there being a sufficient number of boats in the chain to ensure a constant supply of things like coal.
I doubt there are a sufficient number of llamas to make any difference, though you might get one or two merchants transporting by llama train. I'm equally sure their aren't sufficient horses, mules, donkeys etc. Most of the horses around might well be suitable as hacks or with training for pulling a trap, but that is a long way short of what would be needed for a serious distribution system.
The major advantage of livestock being they can breed their replacements and over time we could breed sufficient numbers. There'd be a lot of old trades that need relearning.

armyknife

thriftwizard wrote: »

GQ, you may need a bigger shed on your allotment...

Camper you can tow by bike!

Good grief I'd not like to tow that on my bike, 45kg, but high-sided, so likely to pick up any cross wind and snake all over the place.

What's wrong with a 2-3 kg tent instead?

GreyQueen

armyknife wrote: »

Good grief I'd not like to tow that on my bike, 45kg, but high-sided, so likely to pick up any cross wind and snake all over the place.

What's wrong with a 2-3 kg tent instead?

That's why I have a 2.1 kg tent. It stands up to some hellacious weather, as long as you don't mind treating it like a cocoon.

armyknife

GreyQueen wrote: »

That's why I have a 2.1 kg tent. It stands up to some hellacious weather, as long as you don't mind treating it like a cocoon.

Yes, less is more.


I should also point out to the non-cyclist here, that even when a bike becomes 'wounded' it'll still be useful as the load it's carrying can be pushed, much better than a trolley or rucksac.

That happened to me on New years eve, coming backcross country on my rubbish 'shopping' bike, my good brake failed (other one in need of attention), got a more than slow puncture, so had to cycle slowly to the shop to do my necessary shopping, in the end bought more than 20 kg of stuff, as expect the tyre was flat when I got outside, but it was still more than usable to easily wheel what would have otherwise been a heavy load, the 800 yards home.

Frugalsod

Perplexed_Pineapple wrote: »

Loving the bike-camper combinations :cool:



Except on the hills. 45kg on a hill is still 45kg, wheels or not. Ideal for somewhere flat - I see they are made in Denmark, mostly flat so far as I remember.
I'd favour keeping it as light as possible - a bike with maybe some panniers would be enough to carry a lightweight shelter like a tarp or a small tent. The advantage of keeping the weght low would be if you had to go across country - farmers have an annoying habit of breaking the countryside up with hedges, fences, stiles and things like that. It could be a big advantage to be able to lift your transport over that sort of small obstruction. Roads might be blocked by abandoned cars or fallen trees and if going around wasn't possible, going over might avoid a long diversion. I know I can lift my pushbike over a stile or a low fence and if you were bugging out with a partner or older child you could work as a team to lift a bike over quite high fences or walls. Good luck doing that with a cargo bike or a folding camper :rotfl:

ETA - of course some are less able bodied and would probably be better sticking with a motorised solution.

Yes but with route planning you can try and avoid hills. Though I do accept your point. Though if you are trying to get to your bug out location you will be trying to get there with as many supplies as possible. With a cargo bike and panniers you could at least take the panniers off for obstacles and reattach everything once past. Secondly a cargo bike would have problems going over fields as would most bikes anyway. You might try and stick to roads. Only mountain bikes would cope, and then you are still going to be limited in what you could carry. At least with a cargo bike and panniers you could take items for trade or to abandon as a decoy. Dropping a pannier full of brains will definitely enable you to get away from the zombies with the rest of your items.

Then there is the size of your party. You might have a number of mountain bikes along with a number of cargo bikes being able to carry the loads for say children or elderly party members. There are so many variables to consider.

If you live in the hills then you will know how practical each solution is and develop a plan accordingly. Hiking boots would win in this situation. For city dwellers a bike would have advantages in being able to get out of the area quicker.

Then you need to consider what time of day to move, walking can be silent if you need to move stealthily even in a city. Once power is gone you will need to move only during moon lit nights to conserve batteries and to not give yourself away. Cycling is much harder by moonlight.

GreyQueen

nuatha wrote: »

As you say canals aren't really suitable for perishables, and rely on there being a sufficient number of boats in the chain to ensure a constant supply of things like coal.
I doubt there are a sufficient number of llamas to make any difference, though you might get one or two merchants transporting by llama train. I'm equally sure their aren't sufficient horses, mules, donkeys etc. Most of the horses around might well be suitable as hacks or with training for pulling a trap, but that is a long way short of what would be needed for a serious distribution system.
The major advantage of livestock being they can breed their replacements and over time we could breed sufficient numbers. There'd be a lot of old trades that need relearning.

I read some years ago that the amount of leisure horses in the UK is in excess of the numbers of horses in the horse-drawn era. But they always were a luxury item, hence the old proverb about how if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Most people walked everywhere, through necessity, might have paid a penny to hop up on a cart or wagon.

Pal of mine breeds racehorses, flatracers not jumpers. They can run like the clappers and look lovely but you wouldn't want to do heavy work with them, and some of them are extremely highly-strung. Although failed racehorses not going to be used for breeding have always been stripped of their racing names, had their passports handed in and been sold into the market as hunters or regualar riding horses.

And horse-breeding is a fraught business, even with bloodlines so rarified that some of the horses in the lineages of his stock have changed hands for £3 million + as untried yearlings. Lots of things can go wrong, and bringing a mare and a stallion together at the right time is no guarantee you'll have a live foal (or even a live mare) 11 months later............ Plus if the mare is stroppy and lashes out with a rear hoof, you might not even have an intact stallion.......:eek:

Fortunately for the future, not all the carefully-improved-over-centuries heavy horses have been lost, even if they're mostly kept by hobbyists these days. My grandad was ploughing with horses as late as 1953 and my Dad was using them for light carting duties in the late 1950s on another farm.

greenbee

GreyQueen wrote: »

Plus if the mare is stroppy and lashes out with a rear hoof, you might not even have an intact stallion.......:eek:.

which is why nowadays the poor stallion is unlikely to see the mare... If he's lucky he'll be diverted by some placid and reliable mare while his valuable genetic material is being collected using an AV...

GreyQueen

armyknife wrote: »

Yes, less is more.


I should also point out to the non-cyclist here, that even when a bike becomes 'wounded' it'll still be useful as the load it's carrying can be pushed, much better than a trolley or rucksac.

That happened to me on New years eve, coming backcross country on my rubbish 'shopping' bike, my good brake failed (other one in need of attention), got a more than slow puncture, so had to cycle slowly to the shop to do my necessary shopping, in the end bought more than 20 kg of stuff, as expect the tyre was flat when I got outside, but it was still more than usable to easily wheel what would have otherwise been a heavy load, the 800 yards home.

This is very true; having the load on a bike, even if not a rideable-at-that-time bike, is much better than having it on your back.

I think the key to prepping (and life in general) is flexibility of mind, resourcefulness, some carefully chosen resources and an ability to think on your feet. Bad things aren't pre-announced for your viewing pleasure, they tend to just happen.

I am playing with fabric, between nipping on here for a nosey. Had most of the smaller stuff in my airing cupboard bagged and when had to empty it out in a hurry last Saturday when the flood was discovered, it was easy to sling stuff out. The back half of the contents on each shelf got wet, the front half didn't. Stuff being bagged kept things together and, in one incident, kept syrup-of-plaster off the duvet.

Also, in an event of a move, it will be very easy to consolidate these bags of textiles into bigger bags, with them keeping the contents clean and orderly. All my moves have been with minimal notice (3 days, typically) and I like to be move-ready. Have participated in so many moves of friends and acquainances who were not move-ready and it is the most exhausting and frustrating thing.