PPS parking charge

happysnapper1970

Hi please help, I parked my car without putting a ticket on it, when I realised I should have got one approx 5/6 mins later I returned with the FREE ticket (valid for 90mins) to find that I had already been ticketed by PPS. I had returned to the car 3 mins after the ticket was issued and went in search of the enforcers (they had disappeared).
Having read this forum please can you inform me whether I should pay or just ignore them as just a little worried.
Thanks happysnapper

notts_phil

Sorry

But if you had actually read this forum then you would know to ignore

Surely?

bargepole

happysnapper1970 wrote: »

...Having read this forum please can you inform me whether I should pay or just ignore them as just a little worried.

Opinion is divided on the subject.

240,000 people in 240,000,000 threads say ignore.

Perky Pieman (well known troll) says pay.

It's a tough call.

Stephen_Leak

happysnapper1970 wrote: »

Hi please help, I parked my car without putting a ticket on it, when I realised I should have got one approx 5/6 mins later I returned with the FREE ticket (valid for 90mins) to find that I had already been ticketed by PPS. I had returned to the car 3 mins after the ticket was issued and went in search of the enforcers (they had disappeared).
Having read this forum please can you inform me whether I should pay or just ignore them as just a little worried.
Thanks happysnapper

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If this is a free car park or they paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now two recent court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you do owe the CPO anything, then you ought to write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”.

In any event, you ought to advise the CPO that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. That ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with them.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with chasing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve done this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a Nigerian e-mail scammer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

Oopsadaisy

If you are terrified of bits of A4 paper then pay; otherwise ignore, ignore, ignore some more.

Coupon-mad

happysnapper1970 wrote: »

Hi please help, I parked my car without putting a ticket on it, when I realised I should have got one approx 5/6 mins later I returned with the FREE ticket (valid for 90mins) to find that I had already been ticketed by PPS. I had returned to the car 3 mins after the ticket was issued and went in search of the enforcers (they had disappeared).
Having read this forum please can you inform me whether I should pay or just ignore them as just a little worried.
Thanks happysnapper

I would like to know where on this forum you reckon we have ever told people to pay a fake PCN scammer?! IGNORE is said every time! And as I said on your other thread 'The Enforcers' LOL! Sounds like a new blockbuster movie! :rotfl:

Relax, it's just a scam from chancers who can't get a real job.

Ignore it (as long as it's not a company, hire or leased car). The registered keeper will get some letters, that's all, so make sure your household knows there is NOTHING in it in spite of the debt collector and 'solicitor' letter headings and threats of court. It's all hot air and an impersonation of authority, much like a phishing email scam it relies on victims who are too uninformed or stupid to realise what it is.

I have already answered on the other thread you posted on so this next bit is a repeat of links - but I hope you see them and read them and understand it's safe to do nothing.

Tick off the threatening letters Here.

Watchdog clip with expert Solicitor's opinion here.

Barrister's opinion here.

Show your family and friends. Spread the word like we do. Only take seriously a real ticket from the Police, TFL, Council or (rarely) a real penalty from a Train Operator.

Anything else is destined for 'shredding for hamster-bedding'.

HTH

esmerobbo

Which PPS is it?

If its Premier Parking services Devon, then you should not hear from them as they have had their DVLA access denied!

SodG24

bargepole wrote: »

Opinion is divided on the subject.

240,000 people in 240,000,000 threads say ignore.

Perky Pieman (well known troll) says pay.

It's a tough call.

I like this answer a lot and so will be stealing it for future use .... sorry

Stephen_Leak

esmerobbo wrote: »

Which PPS is it?

If its Premier Parking services Devon, then you should not hear from them as they have had their DVLA access denied!

Doesn't that mean that they just have to get the RK info' via another PPC?

ManxRed

Not technically allowed, but it doesn't usually stop them.

esmerobbo

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

Doesn't that mean that they just have to get the RK info' via another PPC?

As Manxred says it should stop them but it may not! Any other company who asks for Keeper details must only do so for a AOS member. However I cant see the point, if the first is an AOS member then why does someone else need the details on their behalf!