Unsure whether to challenge a parking fine?

Another_Username_4

We received a "Parking Charge Notice" this morning after parking at the Pilgrim Hospital in Boston, Lincolnshire. I am a carer for my disabled partner and we parked in a disabled bay. The car parkis owned by Total Parking Solutions with an address in Kettering.

The problem was that while we were in the hospital, our disabled badge fell off the sloping shelf in the car. I know that's not a reasonable 'excuse' but we want to challenge the £60 penalty. I also noticed that they wrote the hospital location as "p/hospital" on the "seen at" part of the penalty notice.

So the question is, should we challenge the parking charge on the grounds of "my disabled badge fell off the shelf" or would we be better off challenging the "p/hospital" location which is clearly not specific?

Thanks.

John

Ich_2

Or as it's not a fine at all but an invoice from an organisation that should not ber issuing them

Ignore it (read a lot of the threads on here!)

notts_phil

Ignore, dont bother challenging as a waste of time

Stephen_Leak

Another_Username wrote: »

We received a "Parking Charge Notice" this morning after parking at the Pilgrim Hospital in Boston, Lincolnshire. I am a carer for my disabled partner and we parked in a disabled bay. The car parkis owned by Total Parking Solutions with an address in Kettering.

The problem was that while we were in the hospital, our disabled badge fell off the sloping shelf in the car. I know that's not a reasonable 'excuse' but we want to challenge the £60 penalty. I also noticed that they wrote the hospital location as "p/hospital" on the "seen at" part of the penalty notice.

So the question is, should we challenge the parking charge on the grounds of "my disabled badge fell off the shelf" or would we be better off challenging the "p/hospital" location which is clearly not specific?

Thanks.

John

Are you sure the badge fell off the dashboard? PPC staff have been seen rocking cars to make tickets and disabled badges slide off.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If this is a free car park or they paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now two recent court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

The Blue Badge scheme doesn’t apply to private car parks. Anyone, who’s disabled under the terms of The Equality Act 2010 can use a disabled parking bay. If they’re also Blue Badge holders, they don't need to display it.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you do owe the CPO anything, then you ought to write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”.

In any event, you ought to advise the CPO that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. That ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with them.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with chasing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve done this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a Nigerian e-mail scammer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

fil_cad

IGNORE IGNORE IGNRE all garbage from them, they have no legal powers to suck your money off you. :money:

[Deleted User]

Another_Username wrote: »

The car park is owned by Total Parking Solutions with an address in Kettering.

I'm pretty sure Total Parking Solutions doesn't own the car park.

bargepole

Another_Username wrote: »

... So the question is, should we challenge the parking charge on the grounds of "my disabled badge fell off the shelf" or would we be better off challenging the "p/hospital" location which is clearly not specific? ...

Neither.

A challenge, or "appeal" means that you believe the ticket has some legal validity. Which it doesn't.

If you have a hamster, and a shredder, you can get some free bedding.

Another_Username_4

Wow - so many replies so soon! Thanks VERY much for your help on this.

So a complete ignoring of the parking notice! That's obviously the easy way out. Thanks for all the information. I understand that by challenging the notice I am admitting liability, so I will leave it and see what happens. Of course I worry that it will lead to a bigger fine and payment of court costs, etc., but if the system really is that flaky I will just ignore it and plead poverty if it ever did go to court (which I assume it won't from what you have all said).

It's true about the badge falling off the dashboard shelf. We have a Megane. If you have seen one of these you will understand what we mean. It is near impossible to put anything on it. I should have been more careful.

We are so grateful for your help on this matter.

John & Jane.

trisontana

It's not a FINE and it will never go to court

Coupon-mad

Another_Username wrote: »

Wow - so many replies so soon! Thanks VERY much for your help on this.

So a complete ignoring of the parking notice! That's obviously the easy way out. Thanks for all the information. I understand that by challenging the notice I am admitting liability, so I will leave it and see what happens. Of course I worry that it will lead to a bigger fine and payment of court costs, etc., but if the system really is that flaky I will just ignore it and plead poverty if it ever did go to court (which I assume it won't from what you have all said).

It's true about the badge falling off the dashboard shelf. We have a Megane. If you have seen one of these you will understand what we mean. It is near impossible to put anything on it. I should have been more careful.

We are so grateful for your help on this matter.

John & Jane.

It's just a fake PCN, ignore it (as long as it's not a company, hire or leased car). This is not a fine at all. Not a penalty. It's just rubbish from a private scammer.

There is no court, no CCJ, no effect on your credit rating, NOTHING except letters (and sometimes the odd phone call that can be stopped easily).

The registered keeper will get some letters, that's all, so make sure your household knows there is NOTHING in it in spite of the debt collector and 'solicitor' letter headings and threats of court. It's all hot air and an impersonation of authority, much like a phishing email scam it relies on victims who are too uninformed or stupid to realise what it is.

Tick off the threatening letters Here.

Watchdog clip with expert Solicitor's opinion here.

Barrister's opinion here.

Show your family and friends. Spread the word like we do. Only take seriously a real ticket from the Police, TFL, Council or (rarely) a real penalty from a Train Operator.

Anything else is destined for 'shredding for hamster-bedding'.

HTH

Another_Username_4

Hamster bedding it is then!

I looked at the Watchdog video. It's amazing how this has come about. I presume most people are not aware that these companies are highly unlikely to take you to court and, as the solicitor said, he has never known such a situation yet.

I will spread the word.

Thanks again.