Kitten food

Fire_Fox

hampshirebabe wrote: »

I got a bit mixed up with your reply Fire Fox, both the wet food and dry food are complete foods, neither is marked as complimentary. I've been feeding them hills science plan complete kitten food, they eat quite a lot of that, I leave it out for them all the time and just fill it up when its almost gone, I've been told thats the best way for kittens. I'd also read, on this forum, that a cheaper wet food was ok as they get a lot of thier moisture from wet food, so as long as its a good quality dry food, then a cheaper complete wet food would be ok. I'm sure when I looked at the ingredients of the basics cat food it said 40% meat, the same as the other sainsbury's cat food, and it wasn't that much cheaper, leading me to think it's the same stuff inside just with a no frill label.
Bozita is marked as a complete food for kittens, pregnant or nursing cats too.

Please dont think I'm being awkward, but on a money saving forum, I'm trying to work out why the more expensive cat foods are so often recommended, often on the grounds that a high protein food will need less to fill up a cat than a low protein one.
If you look at Encore for eg, its 14% protein, but its at its cheapest is £10.70/kg, whereas, the sainsburys fish in jelly, for eg, is 8% protien but only £1.25/kg. Thats over 10 times more expensive!
Plus none of those ones you've mentioned are 'kitten food', I'd like to know whats the difference and if kitten food really is better for kittens?

Sorry you didn't understand my earlier post! My work background is lifestyle healthcare (human), so I learned during my studies of the sheer power of nutrition to cause, treat or even cure a raft of medical conditions from cancer to atopic eczema. When I got my last cat I spent time researching feline nutrition and discovered this holds as true for our pets as for our children. You can't simply look at a human or animal to decide if they are healthy/ thriving or at risk of health problems, many have no visible symptoms but would show up on physical examination, blood tests, urinary tests or blood pressure (medical signs).

Cats are obligate carnivores, they must eat meat/ evolved to live off a high protein, high fat diet compared with humans. The source of the protein is highly relevant, animal protein and meat protein are not equally bioavailable (useable). Felines have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates according to the experts (see 'Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats'). Carbs represent lower quality nutrition and have been linked with various health problems in the scientific literature. So why are 'derivatives of vegetable origin' used in cat food? Grains are massively cheaper than meat, the waste products of the human food industry can be used. Another cheap filler is water (jelly/ gravy), this skew the results if you are trying to compare the protein, fat and carbs content and feed rate of one wet food and another. Kitten foods tend to be higher in protein and fat but so is a good quality adult food, much of the introduction of kitten-specific food is about marketing.

If you are on a tight budget animal derivatives are an acceptable alternative to meat because they are comprised of stuff like offal and connective tissue which would form part of a feline's natural diet anyway and supply bioavailable (useable) protein. In fact if you raw fed it would be essential to give organ meat such as heart to get all the nutrients your cat requires. However offal/ organ meat cannot legally be labelled as 'meat', the same rules apply to pet food as human food.

Most domestic cats get dental decay within the first few years of life, contrary to popular belief this is not simply down to sugars in the diet, carbs from grains also feed plaque bacteria. Veterinary dental care costs you money because it's rarely covered by pet insurance, and there are risks involved in anaesthetising your cat for cleaning or extraction. Easy way to avoid or limit that is to avoid grains/ carbs and regularly feed raw chicken wings (crunching bones cleans tartar and plaque, biscuits do not whatever manufacturers claim).

Butchers Classic in jelly "meat and animal derivatives (min 49%, beef min 4%) minerals". Protein 8.5% fat 5%. Whiskas Supermeat pate "meat and animal derivatives (inc. 4% fresh meat), fish and fish derivatives (inc. 4% tuna), minerals, derivatives of vegetable origin". Note that the vegetable derivatives are very low, being less in content than the minerals. Protein 9.5%, fat 3.5%. Low meat content, yes, that is what keeps them cheap, but animal protein and no unhealthy fillers. If you were to alternate these with Bozita you should be able to do away with or substantially reduce the high grain Hills without breaking the bank. :money:

I don't agree that you can tell what is a 'good' and 'bad' food by the brand name alone, you must read the ingredients. Applaws biscuits are very high meat, but their wet foods are almost all complimentary so IMO a waste of money. Whiskas dry food is almost all grains and plant protein, but their Supermeat is almost all animal protein. Hills wet food is chock full of cheap derivatives and grains, Hills biscuits are middling for meat content but still contains a high percentage of carb fillers (varies within the brand). Bozita wet is 97% meat but their dry is full of grains.

Fire_Fox

Even small kittens can tackle a chicken wing BTW, chopping with poultry shears encourages them to crunch on the bone, not just gnaw off the meat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA2-HhToJ_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9aCoT_Hxw

hampshirebabe

Thanks, thats really interesting and easy to understand. I never knew I could give them raw chicken wings, I'd thought you cant give chicken, but maybe I'd heard that about dogs, maybe thats wrong too, dont know anything about dogs.
So do you think dry food is unnecessary then, or as long as its a high meat content one its ok to be included? Its cheaper, as has been mentioned, even a good dry food is cheaper than wet food. How often can they have raw chicken wings? I just bought some biscuits that are supposed to be good for their teeth, but I wont bother with them again.
So to find a good cat food, look for high protein, for kittens a highish fat content too, and look for low carbs. Thats very clear and straight forward.
One other question, if they eat a lot of wet food, is it so important for them to drink lots of water? My cats seem to only like very fresh water, thats why I was thinking of getting a fountain for them.
I've been reading all about bioavailable proteins myself recently, researching vegetarian diets, not that i could ever give up meat, but my daughter seems to have gone off it recently, dont suppose you've explained all of that on another thread anywhere have you?

hampshirebabe

Can I ask what you feed/fed your cat?

Fire_Fox

I am currently feeding either Bozita or Butchers Classic, my girl doesn't like the Whiskas Supermeat and will only eat little bits of minced raw. My last boy had either Bozita pate or raw which he absolutely adored. I do keep cereal free biscuits in (Applaws) but only for when Lulu is going to the cattery or I am out for a long day. Last time I did the maths it was cheaper to feed grain free wet than grain free dry, but prices have changed so perhaps that is no longer the case.

Both dogs and cats can have raw chicken wings, they are both carnivorous so would eat raw meat in the wild. NEVER give cooked bones because these can splinter, and never leave the cat/ dog alone with a bone. If you are using the chicken wings as a treat or to clean their teeth some vets will recommend two or three times a week. You can use a chunk of wing as a daily meal providing they do crunch on the bone and they will eat some raw heart (cheap). If you chop the wings and heart into pieces with poultry shears then freeze on a baking tray it means the meat is always fresh and serving is no hassle for you. Some cats go wild for raw, others take a few attempts to adjust and a few are not interested at all.

Dry food is unnecessary and it is not natural for cats to eat a cooked dry diet. However there is a convenience element: all raw or all canned wet absolutely doesn't work for every cat slave. One option is to simply cut down the amount of dry food you give, only during the day when you are at work say. When we are talking about 'good' and 'bad' quality foods, it's worth saying that just because Hills is far far better quality than Go Cat it could still be lower quality than Value or Basics wet due to the carb content. If cats are eating only wet food they may not need to drink at all, but certainly purchase a fountain if you can afford it. Cats would naturally drink from running water and not somewhere close to their food source nor close to their toileting area. Some also like a very wide shallow dish, like a soup plate or pasta plate rather than drinking from a regular bowl.

IMO the most important thing is to choose cat foods that are grain/ cereal free because these are major sources of carbohydrates. If you do this the protein and fat content will be basically fine for a kitten or adult cat because there are only three sources of calories anyway. Ideally you would also limit or exclude vegetable derivatives - these can be vegetable protein or carbs so are lower quality, but this is less important than avoiding the grains/ cereals IMO. The easiest way is to read ingredients lists rather than tying yourself in knots with the fat and protein percentages (carb content is rarely stated, cunning).

Humans
Although bioavailability of protein does apply to us as well as felines, we are omnivorous so can thrive without meat. Most important for us is protein little and often - from breakfast then every three to four hours. Secondly to combine vegetable sources - seeds with grains, nuts with lentils, beans with grains and so on. A key issue for non-fish eaters is getting sufficient long chain omega-3s: I recommend using omega-enriched eggs (Columbus, Goldenlay) plus a high strength algae extract such as http://www.opti3omega.com/ Ideally you would have 3g per day combined DHA and EPA which can work out very expensive for a vegetarian. There is some excellent information on protein and other nutrition issues on the Vegetarian Society website IIRC. :cool: Otherwise feel free to PM me any questions.

rexreo7

Hi myself Rex
I had a cat since from a month I give my cat best value canned cat food she like it very much. I read the other cat food specified in this thread i will absolutly going to try it.