Magistrate Procedure

Harryo

Hi

My Son has received a Summons to a Magistrates Court in respect of a Train Penalty Fare Notice which was issued at his local train station. There is a Magistartes Court just down the road from where he lives. The Court he has got to attend however is in a different borough, about 15 miles from where he lives and a real pain to get to by public transport. Could someone in the know advise whether this is in order or whether the case should be heard at his local Court? TIA

wealdroam

Get in touch with the court and ask them if it can be changed to your local court.

Maybe your local court doesn't deal with that type of case.

Bear_Grills

Harryo wrote: »

...about 15 miles from where he lives and a real pain to get to by public transport.

Let the train take the strain...

Harryo

Thank you Wealdroam. I have just been through the paper work my Son was issued with and there are a number of errors, including The Statement of Fact being incorrect, a Witness Statement noted down has not been included and a Witness Statement which is not listed has been included. Overall it is a bit of a mess. I think I may have to pay out for a Solicitor to handle the matter as he cannot afford one and it does not look as though Legal Aid is available for fare disputes. If I do not do that then I will give the Court a ring on Monday.

nononsense1

You or your son will know if the penalty fare is justified or not. If you have a valid case go to Court and fight it but if you try to get off on a technicality and fail then be prepared to pay a good bit more, for Court and Legal costs, than if pleading guilty.

Hintza

Are you not taking your son to court?

vax2002

The only evidence they need will be the signing in sheet from the court door and the contract of confession signed with the train guard.
If it was his plan to fight, then signing the contract with the guard was his undoing.

Sgt_Pepper_2

vax2002 wrote: »

The only evidence they need will be the signing in sheet from the court door and the contract of confession signed with the train guard.
If it was his plan to fight, then signing the contract with the guard was his undoing.

Do you have to sign it at court?

I never have.

Joe_Horner

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

Do you have to sign it at court?

I never have.

The reptilian overlords may have introduced new procedures since you were there last?

vax2002

These types of cases are heard on one day and yes a signing in sheet magically appears at the front security check.
Do you have to sign it ? well they will cause a big fuss if you dont, they need it to be shown in court to compare the signatures to the contract that was signed.
So sign an X if they carry on.

If you can afford a solicitor, if the train guard fails to show, as they usually do, they send a company solicitor from the train company, then a clever solicitor will ask that the defendant be "identified to court by the accuser".
As they are not there and any adjournment must be agreed by both parties , the case goes out at the first hurdle.

Harryo

Thank you for your replies and your interest. I will tell you more. When I first posted I had not seen the paperwork and as I understood matters he had to go to Court in two weeks. I am on holiday then and I was reluctant to come back because of the costs and also the disruption it would cause others. However I have now seen the papers and if he pleads guilty then a new date is fixed. Therefore I will be going with him.

The problem all stems around an Oyster card. He used it on a scanner going into the station and says it bleeped indicating it had been accepted. Two enforcement officers got onto the train at the same train door as my son. On the journey they checked his Oyster Card and said it had not been swiped and demanded £20 fine. My son argued his case that he had swipped it and did not have £20 anyway so the Notice was issued. Two things here - he would not have got on the train with the officers if he knew the card was not swipped and also there is an error on the Notice issued.

Anyway he appealed and it was rejected. The fine has now risen to £40. A further letter threatens a £1000 fine and possibly three months imprisonment. Obviously unlikely but it does put a different perspective on the matter. So he writes back stating that although he is innocent the odds are stacked up against him as he cannot prove that he swipped his card and therefore was prepared to pay the £40 but it would need to be in instalments and asked if that was acceptable . He told me about it and I thought that was reasonable and thought they would accept, otherwise I would have paid the £40 for him (and now wish I had).

There was no further correspondence until receipt of the summons. They are now also looking for a contribution towards prosecution costs. There is no mention in it that the fine can be paid and the matter settled. I do not know yet whether that is an option but I suspect it is not. If it is then I will pay it. The actual stated crime is "that he boarded a train without a valid ticket or other authority for the journey". If he did swipe the card and unknowing to him the machine did not work then he still would be "guilty" of that charge. In the Statement it says that they have received no response or statement of mitigating circumstances, which as above is incorrect. Most importantly I feel is the offer he made to pay. It is stated the statement of the officer is attached but it is not. But there is a totally irrelevant statement for some reason from another employee who it would seem put the case together. It also states there has been no attempt to pay the original fare since the occurance. Well that has never been asked for (only the fine has) however that is also incorrect as he offered to pay the full amount. It then goes on to say that because he has not attempted to pay the original fare it is now considered that he intended to travel on the train without paying a fare, which evidently is a criminal offence.

Overall I think he is in a no win situation. But what should he do - admit he is guilty to something he believes he was not and get a criminal record and a lower fine without so many expenses or fight his case and possibly still get a criminal record but a larger fine and expenses or alternatively possibly let off? I think he has got to fight but because of the "crime" wording I think possibly the only chance is that he gets off on a technicality. Incidentally, he has told me on at least four occasions that the swipe machines have not worked. On three occasions it has been at the other end of his journey, where as a consequence he has then been overcharged. He has kept an email response for the last one where TFL admit there was a technical error. So therefore that is some proof that the machines are not fail safe. Sorry for the long post but I feel better putting it all down on "paper".