Wet soggy, illigible ticket

misskattay

Hi there....

I need some advice, I got a ticket yesterday. I did not realise that the machine had not printed my ticket correctly, despite taking the money (didn't see or hear it drop out). Now I park there every friday and every friday i pay the full amount for the 24hr parking. So im really annoyed, i know it is careless on my half but also it normally works, I have evidence of my tickets.

Also my ticket got soaked in the rain and it does not say the date or time the ticket was issued?

what should I do? should i pay? please advise...poor student that CANNOT afford £70!!

Thanks
:mad:

notts_phil

Who issued the ticket? Council or a private company?

irenee

I'm a little confused as to how your ticket got so soaked that it is illegible

Tickets are displayed inside cars - generally a dry place ??

Stephen_Leak

irenee wrote: »

I'm a little confused as to how your ticket got so soaked that it is illegible

Tickets are displayed inside cars - generally a dry place ??

I think the OP has used the word "ticket" to describe 2 things.

1. The misprinted "ticket" she received from the pay & display machine.

2. The parking "ticket" she then received, presumably for displaying a misprinted P&D machine "ticket". This is the one that would've got wet.

£70 could be a council or a PPC, but I suspect that we're talking council here. It's the kind of schoolboy error that council CEOs make. With PPC attendants, their job depends on the revenue from their tickets, so they take more care with them.

Orford

Appeal in writing to the council, enclosing a photocopy of the P&D ticket, explaining that you paid the fee and displayed the P&D ticket. Even if the ticket is completely illegible there should be a number on the back from which they should be able to trace when it was issued.

misskattay

Hello all,

Sorry let me try again and be clearer...
1.Fine is issued from euro-park - private
2. my ticket was in my car, i meant my parking fine notice document got soaked and there are no details on it, i.e time date etc of issue.
3. my ticket was in my car, i just hadn't realised the machine didn;t print ticket properly after taking full amount for 24hr parking.It printed for only hour.
4. I was trying to make a case that i park there every week and put the right money, i wasn't trying to avoid paying as i did put full amount in...

Hope this makes more sense, i really appreciate any advice or comments as there is no way i can afford to pay this....

Kate

peter_the_piper

In that case, don't. Its only Euro, you paid so there is no loss to them. Just ignore and don't bother to reply to anything.

pogofish

Firstly, this is not any sort of fine - merely a speculative invoice. So stop taking this seriously now!

If you paid them the correct amount, fine. You owe them nothing and the maximum amount any landowner can claim is limited to that.

However Euro-Park (do you mean Euro Car Parks?) are utter cowboys who will not take a reasonable course of action, so your best option is to ignore them completely from now-on.

They will send you a number of increasingly threatening letters that are utterly unenforceable and you can probably find them in the forum sticky, so you know what to expect.

Either way, the less contact you have now, the quicker the scam will end.

Stephen_Leak

As it's a PPC ...

Firstly, the legal stuff ...

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. As you paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now two recent court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

What should I do now?

You could write to the CPO advising them of the exceptional circumstances in this case. Also advise them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. That ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with them.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with chasing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve done this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a Nigerian e-mail scammer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

Half_way

misskattay wrote: »

Hello all,

Sorry let me try again and be clearer...
1.Fine is issued from euro-park - private
2. my ticket was in my car, i meant my parking fine notice document got soaked and there are no details on it, i.e time date etc of issue.
3. my ticket was in my car, i just hadn't realised the machine didn;t print ticket properly after taking full amount for 24hr parking.It printed for only hour.
4. I was trying to make a case that i park there every week and put the right money, i wasn't trying to avoid paying as i did put full amount in...

Hope this makes more sense, i really appreciate any advice or comments as there is no way i can afford to pay this....

Kate

heres a few answers, hope this helps to give you some re-asurance

1: it is not a fine, private companies can not issue fines or penaltys, only the landowner can sue for any losses ( see answer to question 3)
2: as above its not a fine, details or no details on the ticket it is still pretty meaningless, technicaly its called a speculative invoice
3: You paid for your ticket, only the landowner can sue you for any losses, as you paid the losses are calculated at £0.00 or Zero ( whatever you preffer)
4: you dont need to make any case, as their is no case to make - you took up their offer of parking, and you paid for the service ( as you should ) if they were realy serious bout things they should know how much money is in their ticket machine and how many tickets it has issued, buts its easier and more proffitable for them to send out threats and un enforcable invoices as a majority of peoplpe will crumble and hand over the cash.

So what next?

Option 1: ( recomended) ignore all further correspondance - you will receive threats stating that all sorts of nasty things may happen, see the sticky at the top and play snap with the ltters that you get, after a while they will stop

Option2: fight, but only if this car park belongs to a single retailer/entitiy - if its a retail park with many shops, see option1 as it may be hard to find the landowner.
if its owned by a single retailer, you can fire a letter off to both the PPC and the car park owner telling them to stop sending you letters as they constitute harrasment and you may consider legal action afgainst the car park owner and the private parking company under the protection form harrasment act under UK law the car park owner is responsable for the actions of thier agent ( parkeing eye)

As you can see option2 is a little bit involved, therefore option1 is the best way to deal with this.
by all emans if the car park is owned by a single retailer/entity go in and raise merry hell with them, if they say its nothing to do with us, tell them its their car park, and they are responsable for the actions of their agents ( parking eye)

If you feel nervous abotu whats coming, keep this place informed, also each time you receive a letter post the details on here - and again when they have stopped trying.

As for your regular car park - keep on using it and paying the P&D fee as you should, they can not tow, or clamp you in respect of outstanding debt withuot a court order, and as their is no debt their can be no court order.

so again ignore all comunications - keep them safe and filed away somewhere.

misskattay

wow...thank you!! Really appreciate all the advice. I will ignore the dirty robbing thieving...you know whats!!!