LA expecting very large cash payment

Ulfar

You should give an accurate description of the condition of the property in your inventory, if that upsets them tough. It is for your benefit to make sure it is accurate for when you move on.

The schedule 21 notice is invalid as at the time it was given your deposit had not been protected and the prescribed information supplied to you. You don't need to make them aware of this, again this may be to your benefit.

Hebblethwaite

Ulfar wrote: »

The schedule 21 notice is invalid as at the time it was given your deposit had not been protected and the prescribed information supplied to you. You don't need to make them aware of this, again this may be to your benefit.

Thanks for this. I don't suppose you have a source for this? It would be helpful if I could read up a little further.

Also, what do you mean by "prescribed information"?

Ulfar

Hebblethwaite wrote: »

Thanks for this. I don't suppose you have a source for this? It would be helpful if I could read up a little further.

Also, what do you mean by "prescribed information"?

Link from shelter website :

http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/386451/Factsheet_Is_your_section_21_notice_valid.pdf

Prescribed information legislation :

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/797/article/2/made

Hebblethwaite

Thank you!

Kynthia

A section 21, if correctly served, doesn't end the tenancy but informs the tenant that after expiry the LL has the right to apply to the courts for a possession hearing. Therefore you can't be thrown out at 6 months. It would take a few weeks to get a court date and then you would get at least two weeks after that, and once that date had passed and you didn't leave the LL would have to apply for court baliffs. Court balliffs have taken 10 weeks to evict my non-paying tenant so you would get plenty of time to leave. You could also enter a defense which would put back the whole thing even further if you were successful.

It's silly to issue a section 21 now as all it does is start things off on the wrong foot, and very often they are invalid anyway. If you were a problem tenant they could issue one up to the end of the fourth month without delaying things further. They are probably intending to use it as a bargaining tool to get you to renew the tenancy instead of moving onto a statutory periodic tenancy at the end of the fixed term.

tbs624

OP - regarding your inventory, it is vital that the inventory properly reflects the true condition of the property at the start of the tenancy. It's tough if the LL/LA don't like you highlighting areas that are unclean/marked/frayed/damaged/incomplete and so on. When you exit the tenancy you are obliged to return the property in the same condtion as when originally let to you, save for "fair wear and tear" and that start condition is taken from the details on the agreed inventory.

LAs who routinely serve s21s at the start of a tenancy were foolish to do so even prior to the introduction of tenancy deposit regs - if one served on the same day as the tenancy agreement being signed they would leave themselves open to the suggestion that the s21 was not handed to the T *after* the tenancy agreement had been signed.

As the others have said, if this s21 has been served prior to the LA/LL scheme registering your tenancy deposit AND providing you with the relevant scheme's prescribed information then the s21 will be rendered invalid. The LA/LL can of course re-serve the s21 after sorting out the deposit should they realise their "error", but as T you may prefer not to point any of this out.

You should still check with each of the 3 schemes - TDS, my deposits and DPS - if you do not receive any information indicating that your tenancy deposit has been registered within 30 days of you handing it over.

ruggedtoast

An S21 at the start of your tenancy. Welcome to your new "home". I would move out at the end of the 6 months on principle, and if they squealed about it say:

"Oh, I'm sorry. I assumed because you gave me an eviction notice when I moved in you wanted me to leave on this date. I guess I could stay, but you'll need to lower the rent to reflect the money I've invested looking for a new place."

Idiots.

:mad:

tichtich

Hi Hebblethwaite. I'm glad you like your new home.

I'm in a similar position to you, as I moved into a rented flat a couple of weeks ago. Despite a couple of minor annoyances, I'm very happy with it. The main thing is that it's nice and quiet.

By the sound of it, mine wasn't as dirty as yours, though as usual it wasn't nearly as clean as I left my last flat. I guess that's par for the course. The fridge was in a bit of a state and had to be thoroughly cleaned before use, and as always I cleaned the inside of the kitchen cupboards before putting anything in them. But apart from that there wasn't anything that couldn't wait until after I moved in. And the landlord has been good about fixing a few minor defects that I found.

In these situations I'm always a bit unsure about how much I should expect the landlord to do. I tend to assume that the flat is let "as is" as far as the decor is concerned, and any touching up of paintwork etc is up to me. But I assume the landlord is responsible for anything functional that's not working. Still, I don't want to bother the landlord with things I can fix myself at minimal cost, like a bathroom shelf that was too loose to use, and listed as such in the inventory. (I replaced the failed screws with spring bolts.)

I wouldn't worry about being _too_ detailed in your inventory. I assume that a decent landlord would appreciate a tenant who takes such matters seriously. I added a few things to the landlord's inventory. I was a bit miffed that the inventory gave a blanket "all items are deemed to be in excellent condition with no marks or damage except as stated", when there are plenty of minor marks not mentioned. So I added a correspondingly vague "various small marks not mentioned here". In practice I think these marks come under "fair wear and tear", and I doubt the landlord charged the previous tenant for them or would try to charge me. The trouble is, I suppose, that when you first move in you may not yet know whether you've got a reasonable landlord or not.

Like you I received a Section 21 notice, though at least I had a telephone call from the letting agent before it arrived, telling me it was nothing to worry about. I wouldn't have been much worried anyway, as I've had a "just in case" Section 21 notice before--though not at the very start of the tenancy. It seems a bit silly to me.

A question for those that know. Treating the Section 21 as valid to be on the safe side (ignoring the fact that according to various posters it probably isn't even valid) is it necessary to get it retracted if and when the landlord and I later agree to renew the tenancy or let it roll over into a statutory periodic tenancy?

I would aim to reach such an agreement with the landlord at least two months before the tenancy expires, so I know where I stand, and have plenty of time to make other arrangements if we don't reach agreement. I'm not expecting any problems, and haven't had any in the past, but what if an unscrupulous landlord tried to make a big increase in the rent after just 6 months? Is he free to do so?

BTW take gas and electricity readings immediately, if you haven't already, just in case there's any dispute over those.

Hebblethwaite

Thanks for the further information everyone. Part, but not all of my deposit was in a deposit protection scheme when I was issued the Section 21 and I had signed the tenancy agreement. However, I haven't been given full details of the deposit protection scheme yet and I don't know the name/contact details of my LL (who is overseas - I'm just dealing with the LA) so it's possible it could be considered invalid?

TichTich - I'm also happy to do all the small repairs/improvements that need doing at the start of my tenancy. For example, I have a broken curtain rail that I'll be able to put to rights with a bit of woodglue and there's a really nasty looking stool that would be okay if I replaced the cushion and recovered it (I'll run it by the LA, but given its current state, I can't imagine them saying no!) To be honest, I want this to be my home and I'd hate to deal with a LL/LA who were in and out all the time fussing over minor things. I'm going to hold off on retouching/painting (with their permission) until I get a feel for how I'm going to be treated by the company (the LL is overseas and I don't expect to have any contact with them), but everything else is fine by me.

The only problem I currently have that I think the LA may actually need to come and do something about is some tiles that have come away from the wall over the bath. I'm concerned that water is going to get in there every time I take a shower and wreck the floor (my parents had a ceiling collapse due to the same problem!) If I owned the house, I'd just have a go retiling/grouting that area, but I haven't done it before and couldn't do it to a professional standard. Also, I suppose they might want to check that there isn't any water damage under the bath.

The cleaning is a big job though! They appear to have quickly wiped down obvious surfaces and cleaned the downstairs carpets, but everything else is pretty grimy. It's the sort of dirt that on a quick walthrough (e.g. when I viewed the property) isn't too noticeable, but when you start looking, you realise that nobody has cleaned the place properly in a few years (caked on grease around the doorframe in the kitchen, dirty skirting boards, filthy cupboards). I pressganged my Mum into service today and we spent about five hours cleaning the kitchen and dining room really thoroughly. They are definitely the worst rooms for griminess. Hopefully everywhere else will be quicker. Currently, I'm estimating that I'll be able to move in properly on Wednesday evening. It really is a lovely house aside from the cleanliness, so I can't wait

franklee

tichtich wrote: »

Like you I received a Section 21 notice, though at least I had a telephone call from the letting agent before it arrived, telling me it was nothing to worry about. I wouldn't have been much worried anyway, as I've had a "just in case" Section 21 notice before--though not at the very start of the tenancy. It seems a bit silly to me.

How do you know when the "case" in the just in case occurs as the S21 was your notice and you aren't entitled to more before the landlord actions the S21 by applying to court for possession. You could have had say five "Sword of Damocles" S21's, get complacent about the first four and then find the fifth is to go live. Of course actioning the S21 takes some weeks but to be practical I would prefer not be looking for a new landlord with overstayed the S21 potentially on my references. A S21 is a no fault notice so it should not impact a tenant's reputation but needed court action to evict on a reference may give the impression of a troublesome tenant to the next landlord. The alternative would be moving before court action can be started but for that I'd be needing two months notice which the S21 is supposed to give and would do if it was served fairly.

tichtich wrote: »

A question for those that know. Treating the Section 21 as valid to be on the safe side (ignoring the fact that according to various posters it probably isn't even valid) is it necessary to get it retracted if and when the landlord and I later agree to renew the tenancy or let it roll over into a statutory periodic tenancy?

If you sign up to a new fixed term then the old S21 is no longer usable, however expect to get a new S21 asking you to leave at the end of this new fixed term. I would not recommend remaining on a periodic tenancy with a valid S21 in place as then the landlord can apply to court for possession at any time. So if you go periodic ask the landlord to write to you giving you permission to remain on a periodic tenancy with written assurance he will not use the old S21.

tichtich wrote: »

I would aim to reach such an agreement with the landlord at least two months before the tenancy expires, so I know where I stand, and have plenty of time to make other arrangements if we don't reach agreement. I'm not expecting any problems, and haven't had any in the past, but what if an unscrupulous landlord tried to make a big increase in the rent after just 6 months? Is he free to do so?

Pretty much. Without the S21 you would have at least two months to move after negotiations break down. A S21 whose notice period is up or nearly up, means you put up, move fast or risk court action. So it may weaken your negotiating position. Although I would argue that a landlord offering a new tenancy should compromise the S21, others do not agree with that and practically it'd still be a hassle to defend.