Barclays-credit/debit timing question

Ellie83

Hello everyone. I could do with some help understanding something that happened on my Barclays current account.

On June 29th, my account was credited with my salary and my husband's usual transfer for our house deposit saving. As soon as I saw that my account had been credited, I transfered the full balance to the e saver linked to my current account.

But when I checked my statement online today, it shows the debit BEFORE the credit! And it means that, for a brief period, I was into my "personal reserve" and will have to pay a £22 charge!

Now I have learned from experience that banks always take care of debits before credits, but in this case, the money was already showing as credited to my account, so I thought I could proceed to the transfer safely Is Barlays different and do they deal with debit/credit at the end of the day? I just don't understand :embarasse

But what I really don't understand is that usually, when I transfer money from my current account to my e-saver, the system warns me if I make a mistake and try to transfer too much. This time nothing.

Can someone shed light on this? I am unable to go to a branch as of yet, but if I had some ammunition (or at least an inkling about what may have happened) it would help me tremendously

Ellie83

Well, I spoke to someone in a call centre who really didn't help at all. All he could say was that "the computer says..." But I have learnt one thing: because my account was credited and in the black the same day, I won't be charged.

I will still try to go to a branch soon just to understand what happened and not make the same mistake twice.

GiraffeMan

Did you have any pending card transactions?
ask them to confirm your statement account balance for the 29th june as the computer as the advisor has put it, would have noted all transactions, inc those pending (card payments) to decide your statement balance and if the reserve would be used.
id ring 0845 609 0806 thats there better version of customer services than the 08457 555555

Gromitt

What you'll find is that the payment was only partially cleared. Ie, it was in your account, but not actually cleared until the end of business. It doesn't matter though as your account balance plus amount of credits exceeded your debits by that time, so no charge.

So no need to worry.

I got my account to go 5K into the red before as I FPd some funds through it (linked savings account) and out again within about 5 minutes.

Ellie83

GiraffeMan wrote: »

Did you have any pending card transactions?
ask them to confirm your statement account balance for the 29th june as the computer as the advisor has put it, would have noted all transactions, inc those pending (card payments) to decide your statement balance and if the reserve would be used.
id ring 0845 609 0806 thats there better version of customer services than the 08457 555555

Nope, no pending card transaction as we solely use my current account for direct debits (and none was pending either) and the e-saver linked to this account. Thanks for the phone number, I will call them tomorrow and ask more question.

Gromitt wrote: »

What you'll find is that the payment was only partially cleared. Ie, it was in your account, but not actually cleared until the end of business. It doesn't matter though as your account balance plus amount of credits exceeded your debits by that time, so no charge.

So no need to worry.

I got my account to go 5K into the red before as I FPd some funds through it (linked savings account) and out again within about 5 minutes.

But that is what I don't understand. If it was only partially cleared, why put it as credited to the account? I fail to see their logic sometimes I am relieved that I won't have to pay the reserve fee, a little more concerned that I still don't understand how banks work despite being (or supposed to be!) an adult. :rotfl: I just hope it won't compromise our mortgage application :-s

Horseunderwater

What type of current account do you have? Is it the normal one with overdraft and reserved overdraft that doubles that upto say £500 or whatever limit you have. If so, the system works like this.
Credits go in overnight and will show up after about 12.30 sometimes sooner. A transfer unless you action the later date option will show straight away on the account (on-line if you use that) but date if after end of business will be next day, so that gets taken out before any credit arrives and is fully cleared. However as funds are in account and being cleared, that debit transfer will draw against those funds as it is from a guaranteed regular source. Same goes for cheques that are clearing - you can use those to draw down against. (I only do that if I know cheque is from a reputable source though.) What this means in effect is that you will not incur that £22 charge. Which only happens between 1-5 days of unauthorised OD with some extra interest added. I had to go into mine last year for 3-4 days which is how I know about the £22 mechanism. Charge was something like £23.46 total. If you use on line banking it will show up that way, then it changes after day or so to right order. Even if it shows up as a minus balance, does not mean that OD charges will be forthcoming - it is just the order in which items were processed. Hope this makes sense. It is one feature that works well.

pqrdef

As with many things in banking, customer expectations of websites run way ahead of delivery. The website isn't the bank, it's just an extra that's crudely bolted on like a rear spoiler on an old Skoda. The website display isn't stored anywhere, it's generated on the fly by the program that runs when you request the page. Some of the calculations may even be done at your end, on the PC.

The order that records are displayed in is just an arbitrary choice by the website. The running totals also are generated by the website, not stored in the bank proper.

Some websites only compute a running total once a day. Others compute a running total for every transaction. Some of those might try to sort the transactions in a reasonable order. Others, like the Co-op, sort debits before credits, so that alarming "overdrafts" often appear in the running totals column. But this has nothing to do with what's happening at the bank, it's only an artefact of the way the web page is computed.

Ellie83

Horseunderwater wrote: »

What type of current account do you have? Is it the normal one with overdraft and reserved overdraft that doubles that upto say £500 or whatever limit you have. If so, the system works like this.
Credits go in overnight and will show up after about 12.30 sometimes sooner. A transfer unless you action the later date option will show straight away on the account (on-line if you use that) but date if after end of business will be next day, so that gets taken out before any credit arrives and is fully cleared. However as funds are in account and being cleared, that debit transfer will draw against those funds as it is from a guaranteed regular source. Same goes for cheques that are clearing - you can use those to draw down against. (I only do that if I know cheque is from a reputable source though.) What this means in effect is that you will not incur that £22 charge. Which only happens between 1-5 days of unauthorised OD with some extra interest added. I had to go into mine last year for 3-4 days which is how I know about the £22 mechanism. Charge was something like £23.46 total. If you use on line banking it will show up that way, then it changes after day or so to right order. Even if it shows up as a minus balance, does not mean that OD charges will be forthcoming - it is just the order in which items were processed. Hope this makes sense. It is one feature that works well.

pqrdef wrote: »

As with many things in banking, customer expectations of websites run way ahead of delivery. The website isn't the bank, it's just an extra that's crudely bolted on like a rear spoiler on an old Skoda. The website display isn't stored anywhere, it's generated on the fly by the program that runs when you request the page. Some of the calculations may even be done at your end, on the PC.

The order that records are displayed in is just an arbitrary choice by the website. The running totals also are generated by the website, not stored in the bank proper.

Some websites only compute a running total once a day. Others compute a running total for every transaction. Some of those might try to sort the transactions in a reasonable order. Others, like the Co-op, sort debits before credits, so that alarming "overdrafts" often appear in the running totals column. But this has nothing to do with what's happening at the bank, it's only an artefact of the way the web page is computed.

Thank you so much to all of you. And indeed to the ones before you too I just had a lovely lady who confirmed that my balance at the end of June 29th was what it was supposed to be IN THE BLACK. And that as pqrdef, it is just a way for them to arrange transactions that happen on the same day. I will have learnt something new today, thanks to you and the lady at Barclays. Thanks everyone

Horseunderwater, the lady at the customer service indeed told me that I won't incur any charge as they are only incurred when the end of day balance is in the reserve. Relieved

InsideInsurance

I get this all the time, I transfer money from my company account into my personal account (the second of which is held by Barclays). I go into my personal account and then redistribute the money to other accounts and people.

It is not just the web programme that has the "error" because despite always doing it in that order (money in before out - and there would be insufficient funds to do it in reverse) it always shows both online and on my paper statements that the debits were done first which takes me over my overdraft limit by about £5,000 and then the credit shows coming in and rebalances the books.

Seems just to be the way they decide to order transactions as never has my payments been declined, unauthorised overdraft fees been applied nor anything negative reported to credit reference agencies