tenant changing the locks - wrong?

girl_withno_name

I don't think marliepanda deserved two digs!! For the same comment, with little more than 10 minutes apart and without another word from marliepanda in between...

bris

This is a troll, the 999 operator would not get into a discussion regarding this, there would be no need to dial 999 and the police would not be stupid enough to charge anyone with changing locks.
please don't feed the troll

Werdnal

bris wrote: »

This is a troll, the 999 operator would not get into a discussion regarding this, there would be no need to dial 999 and the police would not be stupid enough to charge anyone with changing locks.
please don't feed the troll

TBH I'm inclined to agree with you!

cran81

girl_withno_name wrote: »

I don't think marliepanda deserved two digs!! For the same comment, with little more than 10 minutes apart and without another word from marliepanda in between...

Girls with no name - you're right. They didn't deserve a dig at all - they were entitled to their opinion.
Marliepanda I'm sorry for speaking out of turn. You were entitled to have your viewpoint.

Princeofpounds - thank you. I'll look at all that info though I hope we can resolve all of this soon.The backbone is growing slowly but surely!!

Bris - what a horrid thing to say. You don't 'believe' someone so accuse them of being a troll. I take it that's an attention seeker. Yeps, like people have bothing better to do.
The call to the police lasted 3 minutes 27 seconds. Two tall, white male police officers came out - one with black hair one with blonde hair. The dark haired one spoke to me whilst the other was outside. They blonde one then came over and asked about the change of locks. He then got the keys. The dark haired one tried the top lock, then tried the bottom one which I never use. Both fitted. After I explained the situation they left me and I closed the door. They were outside speaking to the landlord for a while. I'd rather not be in a confrontation with the police and tell them ethey're wrong. Rather not be charged than end up in a policestation and get an apology.
I immediately told the 999 operator that it was my property but corrected it with 'I'm renting it'. She said so it's not your property.She asked me which kind of tenancy agreement I had as she'd had one where the landlord could come into the property. I didnt want to get into a discussion with her as she didn't seem very, well, on my side.

I posted this post because i stupidly, VERY STUPIDLY thought the advice I'd been given re.changing the locks was wrong and thought it'd help other people with the right advice (what the police said). I was WRONG. Nobody had to respond - I didn't keep asking for more help. Just responding to what had been said.
I'll ask a moderator to delete this post as I'm sure info regarding the locks has been posted elsewhere.

Werdnal

The point is, whilst you have a valid tenancy agreement to rent your property it is YOUR property, not your landlord's. The advice about changing locks is often given here, it is quite legal.

Of course the tenancy agreement states you should not change your locks, why would it agree for you to do that, when your LL wants to ensure he can walk in whenever he likes.

Is your sister qualified and experienced in tenancy law and housing regulations, and has she been letting a property herself for many years - NO, then why take her advice over a lot more experienced and qualified people who regularly post here.

It is up to you whether you believe the advice you have been given is genuine, but believe me it is ... as is the advice that the police know nothing about tenancy law - civil law is totally different to criminal law.

Kynthia

OP, it sounds like you had a horrible experience. It beggars belief that you were questioned like that by the 999 operator as it's not their job and for all we know they live in a HMO. You were right to call the police and they were wrong about it being criminal for you to have changed the locks.

If I were you I would definitely change the lock and contact the CAB and the council tenancy relations office. It might be good to have a print out handy regarding your rights incase you should need to show it to the police in future. Also consider writing to complain regarding those police officers as you may get a letter back confirming that it isn't a criminal offense to change the locks which you can then show other officers or the landlord if you need to.

cran81

Werdnal wrote: »

The point is, whilst you have a valid tenancy agreement to rent your property it is YOUR property, not your landlord's. The advice about changing locks is often given here, it is quite legal.

Of course the tenancy agreement states you should not change your locks, why would it agree for you to do that, when your LL wants to ensure he can walk in whenever he likes.

Is your sister qualified and experienced in tenancy law and housing regulations, and has she been letting a property herself for many years - NO, then why take her advice over a lot more experienced and qualified people who regularly post here.

It is up to you whether you believe the advice you have been given is genuine, but believe me it is ... as is the advice that the police know nothing about tenancy law - civil law is totally different to criminal law.

Hi Werdnal, as I said in my last post , I got it wrong. It's just that I did not exepct the police to take it upon themselves to check the lock or tell me it would be a criminal offence to do so, hence why I posted on here. I stupidly thought I was adding something to people's knowledge. I was wrong.
You're one of the people whose advice I do respect. I never expected the thread to go on for this long or to annoy people.
Looking for how to delete a thread.

RAS

This is the second time in a fiortnight that the police have given totally erroneous advice to a poster on MSE.

What worries me cran is that your LL now thinks he has the right to enter the house when he wants.

It also concerns me that you have a couple of idiots at the local police station who have written up a report confirming that false advice.

i think you need to print out weverythign you can get on this (shelter and the links from pop) and ask to speak to someone pretty senior. Point out very nicely that their officers gave the completely incorrect advice to you and your LL and this needs correcting.

If they did arrest you, they could be sued for false imprisonment by the way.

SuzieSue

cran81 wrote: »

Hi Werdnal, as I said in my last post , I got it wrong. It's just that I did not exepct the police to take it upon themselves to check the lock or tell me it would be a criminal offence to do so, hence why I posted on here. I stupidly thought I was adding something to people's knowledge. I was wrong.
You're one of the people whose advice I do respect. I never expected the thread to go on for this long or to annoy people.
Looking for how to delete a thread.

I don't think you should delete this thread as it might be useful to someone else in a similar position.

I don't know why some of the people here are being so nasty to you - you have been in a very frightening situation and did what you thought best at the time. You now realise that you should have changed the lock, but if you had then you might have been arrested by two clueless policemen. It is very easy for people to say that you should stand up for yourself, but you are a single female being bullied by your landlord who doesn't know your rights.

Yorkie1

1. Criminal damage is the damage or destruction of property belonging to another without lawful excuse.

Changing the locks is not criminal damage, unless in doing so you damage either the lock or the door.

The prevention of crime is a lawful excuse. Illegal eviction is a crime. You had lawful excuse to defend yourself and your property (yes, you have a parallel interest in this property too even though it's the LL's house) against this crime.

Breach of the peace is also something the police should have been there to prevent. Sounds as though they failed spectacularly on this score.

They all got it completely wrong. I agree with PoP's advice to make a formal complaint about the 999 operator and the officers.

2. Illegal eviction. It is a criminal offence for a LL to attempt to unlawfully evict a tenant. It is a separate criminal offence for a LL to do anything likely to interfere with your peace or comfort of the with the intention of causing you to leave. It is a further separate criminal offence for the LL to do anything likely to interfere with your peace and comfort, knowing or believing that it is likely to make you leave.

The LL has not complied with the legal process. He cannot use these threats to get you out. He faces an unlimited fine and up to 2 years' jail for this.

You were trying to make a complaint of illegal eviction to the police and they refused to listed.

As PoP says, again make a formal complaint about the police.

Have you contacted the tenancy department at the council as repeatedly advised in your other threads (can't be bothered to go and locate them for you to search for your answer)? If not, why not?

RING THEM FIRST THING IN THE MORNING. They can help you. Perhaps by contacting the police. Perhaps by writing your thick LL a letter which he might just take notice of.

If the police arrest you for criminal damage when there has been no damage to the barrel of the lock or the door, make sure that you ask for the duty solicitor. (If you act on the repeated advice to speak to the council, this is highly unlikely to occur).

If you fail to get the message through to the police then it might well.

Be proactive. And stop listening to your sister.