Email as sufficient notice to leave tenancy?

girl_withno_name

Oh it's definitely true that whilst this act is in place you need to send letters to the address for serving notices...

But the reasoning behind this remaining the case over emails doesn't have me convinced! And once again you're not actually proving that the letters are ever received, only sent!!

PaulLuke wrote: »

Whilst I agree that moving forward with technology is a good idea, unless you are able to amend the LTA 1987 then, whatever you or I think is irrelevant.

In court proceedings, the court will ask themselves was notice served correctly according to the legislation. Given the act refers to providing a postal address for the service of notices and there are rules which deem letters to be received a set time after posting I'd stick to post as, without server logs etc, I doubt you'd be able to satisfy a court that a particular email was received.

DRP

No, email is not sufficient and the letter will not arrive on time

girl_withno_name wrote: »

Oh it's definitely true that whilst this act is in place you need to send letters to the address for serving notices...

But the reasoning behind this remaining the case over emails doesn't have me convinced! And once again you're not actually proving that the letters are ever received, only sent!!

someone with expertise in networks/email/hacking methods posted on this issue a few months back, saying it was extremely easy to falsify/edit/delete emails (including the originators email account), hence a good reason for the current requirement for serving of notices via the post....

...as posted above the requirement for the involvement of a third party (the PO) massively reduces the risk of something untoward occurring

tbs624

The OP's LA is clearly yet another one of the muppetry brigade.

1. As another poster has mentioned it does not need the signatures of all Ts who are signed to a contract with J&SL to bring the tenancy to an end at a legally appropriate point - one T's signature would suffice.

2. LA muddied the waters by asking T to send Notice via email. LL and T may of course agree a different method of notice to formal snail mail letter but T needs to consider how to prove that they actually complied with the correct timings

Bottom line is that Ts have to read their tenancy agreements and understand their own obligations because LA acts for the LL not them, so will not protect a Ts interests. If there [edit: is suggestion] of a different method of serving notice, use belt and braces methodology.

OP - have you talked direct to the LL?

Fett132

It is a very grey area and could go either way

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Don't be so daft.

You started a poll and invited comments. So no grounds really to complain about posts you disagree with. ruggedtoast's comments can equally be construed as criticism of the LA in the light of your post.

Perhaps if you do another poll, try sticking to just 1 option if that is the answer you want?

Well its not that Im not happy with the answer. Thats why I put a poll in because I wanted peoples opinions on the situation.

Not someone being all high and mighty "Im sick of generation Ys". I asked the question to understand the laws of the situation better, not to be called an idiot because I havent got a degree in Law.

Moving on, a lot of the information here is very useful and 90% of the replies have been very interesting. The debate over what constitutes as sending a notice has particularly caught my attention going beyond this situation.

Progression:

The Letting Agent actually told us she received the email with no attachment, which seemed particularly odd seeing as I sent it to the rest of the flatmates who received it correctly. Hmmm. Either way, thanks to the information from this thread I think I would have gone ahead and written another notice to state our tenancy will end at the end of August as the email would not have stood up in court and she is definitely the type to try to screw us out of money.

Im going to start another thread on the update of the situation as I cant seem to find any answers via Google but I very much appreciate everyones thoughts and discussion here.

:beer:

Fett132

It is a very grey area and could go either way

tbs624 wrote: »

The OP's LA is clearly yet another one of the muppetry brigade.

1. As another poster has mentioned it does not need the signatures of all Ts who are signed to a contract with J&SL to bring the tenancy to an end at a legally appropriate point - one T's signature would suffice.

2. LA muddied the waters by asking T to send Notice via email. LL and T may of course agree a different method of notice to formal snail mail letter but T needs to consider how to prove that they actually complied with the correct timings

Bottom line is that Ts have to read their tenancy agreements and understand their own obligations because LA acts for the LL not them, so will not protect a Ts interests. If there ius suggestin of a different method of serving notice, use belt and braces methodology.

OP - have you talked direct to the LL?

Thanks for the information here. Im glad to hear it is only one tenant required to sign the notice, especially as two of you have mentioned it.

In response to your question I havent spoken to the Landlord. As dodgy as this sounds, he is currently living in Nigeria and we DO NOT HAVE A UK ADDRESS FOR HIM. The tenancy agreement states:

"The Lanlord is {Landlords Name} C/O {Agency} {Agency Address}"

We literally couldnt contact him if we wanted to.

BitterAndTwisted

No, email is not sufficient and the letter will not arrive on time

It's perfectly legitimate for a landlord's address for the serving of notices to be care of the agent if that is what they have chosen. That the landlord is not resident in the UK could open up all sorts of issues between you and the HMRC, but that has been discussed ad infinitum in other threads on here.

Fett132

It is a very grey area and could go either way

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

It's perfectly legitimate for a landlord's address for the serving of notices to be care of the agent if that is what they have chosen. That the landlord is not resident in the UK could open up all sorts of issues between you and the HMRC, but that has been discussed ad infinitum in other threads on here.

I thought they had to produce a UK address for the Landlord, regardless of whether they live outside the UK :S

BitterAndTwisted

No, email is not sufficient and the letter will not arrive on time

You have a UK address for the serving of notices and it's care of the agent.

tbs624

Fett132 wrote: »

I thought they had to produce a UK address for the Landlord, regardless of whether they live outside the UK :S

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

You have a UK address for the serving of notices and it's care of the agent.

OP - don't confuse the respective requirements of the LL&T Act 1985 and the LL& T Act 1987 . Note too that it's not a "UK address" that is required for s47/48 purposes - it's an address in Eng or Wales.

s1 LL&TA85

(1)If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord’s name and address to—

(a)any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or
(b)any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,

that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord’s name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.
(2)A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with subsection (1) commits a summary offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
(3)In this section and section 2—

(a)“tenant” includes a statutory tenant; and
(b)“landlord” means the immediate landlord.

Note address must be LLs place of abode or place of business ( or registered office if a company).s47 and s48 of the latter:

s47 LL&TA 87

(1)Where any written demand is given to a tenant of premises to which this Part applies, the demand must contain the following information, namely—

(a)the name and address of the landlord, and
(b)if that address is not in England and Wales, an address in England and Wales at which notices (including notices in proceedings) may be served on the landlord by the tenant.

(2)Where—

(a)a tenant of any such premises is given such a demand, but
(b)it does not contain any information required to be contained in it by virtue of subsection (1),

then (subject to subsection (3)) any part of the amount demanded which consists of a service charge (“the relevant amount”) shall be treated for all purposes as not being due from the tenant to the landlord at any time before that information is furnished by the landlord by notice given to the tenant.
(3)The relevant amount shall not be so treated in relation to any time when, by virtue of an order of any court, there is in force an appointment of a receiver or manager whose functions include the receiving of service charges from the tenant.
(4)In this section “demand” means a demand for rent or other sums payable to the landlord under the terms of the tenancy.

s48 Notification by landlord of address for service of notices.

(1)A landlord of premises to which this Part applies shall by notice furnish the tenant with an address in England and Wales at which notices (including notices in proceedings) may be served on him by the tenant.
(2)Where a landlord of any such premises fails to comply with subsection (1), any rent or service charge otherwise due from the tenant to the landlord shall (subject to subsection (3)) be treated for all purposes as not being due from the tenant to the landlord at any time before the landlord does comply with that subsection.
(3)Any such rent or service charge shall not be so treated in relation to any time when, by virtue of an order of any court, there is in force an appointment of a receiver or manager whose functions include the receiving of rent or (as the case may be) service charges from the tenant.

jjlandlord

Yorkie1 wrote: »

The LA may have asked for this by email. But your question was whether a court would accept an email as good service. And the answer is No. See the Civil Procedure Rules if you don't believe us.

Emails ('electronic means') are accepted by Civil Procedure Rules. The question whether these rules apply to such notice.

IMO, it seems to depend on the contractual agreement between the parties, or whether a party accepts/confirms receipt of notice however it was served.

Here agent has requested notice via email so he cannot claim later that this was not an accepted method of service.
Best to get a written (inc. email) confirmation that it was received, obviously.

Yorkie1 wrote: »

The Letting Agent actually told us she received the email with no attachment, which seemed particularly odd seeing as I sent it to the rest of the flatmates who received it correctly.

You should have simply written the content of the notice as your email: No problem with attachments.