Advice regarding notice please please

cran81

Hi. I've just signed up because I'd really like some advice.
I've been a tenant in a property for almost four years. Anyway, we're looking for a larger property to rent as the kids are growing up and need more space.
Although I rented the property through an agency I've had a lot of contact with the landlord as he prefers to do things himself as he feels the agents charge too much for getting people in. During my tenancy we've had to put up with alot of stuff that needed doing - flooding, works being done, etc. And throughout it all I've been polite and allowed the landlord to do the work when he had the money or could find a cheap builder, electrician, etc. I'm a sucker for sob stories. One example was waiting almost two months for the electrics to be fixed on the light switches in two rooms because he didn't have anyone cheap enough - he told me to use 'lamps'. I knew he was able to stretch the truth though when he had the insurance people in and exagarrated everything so that he could get new this, this,...
As a tenant though wanting to keep a good relationship with my landlord I didn't question his scruples and well, had a good relationship. Or so I thought. He requested that I call him direct if anything needed doing, etc. which I did.
So, a couple of months ago I get a call from the against saying that he was thinking about selling the property. And I mentioned that I was thinking of getting a bigger place... and he also mentioned that the landlord had said that he didn't want me to call him (ll). I was peeved off as I thought although we're not friends that he would have had the decency to let me know himself considering he was okay enough to take my gifts, etc.
Anyway, last week the landlord calls and apologies and blames everything on agent saying he didn't say this or that and that he wished that he'd called me earlier. Then give some sob story about having no money (BS as the agents had already told me he had the place paid in full and has four other properties). He mentioned he wanted to sell and I said I was looking for somewhere. Then he drops in that he wants to move in next week! I said you're joking and can't you give me more time. he said we'd talk about it. So, I assumed there was no problem but nevertheless I thought I should make a serious effort into looking for a place. I also mentioned that a friend maybe interested in buying the property.
Yesterday the agent called and said landlord wants to move in next week. No mention of notice. I said I'd already spoken to landlord - agent hadn't been told of this and said the landlord was trying to con him out of a commission of a possible sale. So, I speak to landlord. No mention of next week' and when I said I'd like to know when he wanted me to move he said we'll talk about it. I called agent back and he said well you have to go with what ll's saying as it's his property. I said that it would put me in a awkward situation if I didn't know the facts to go by but he said he'd speak to ll and call me back. He didn't.
Then today he calls and says he wants to move in next week!! That he has it all planned and that the tenant who is supposed to be moving into his property will be put out, etc etc. This was the first time I'd got irate and said that I had a family to think about and didn't particularly care about other people. He said I'd been given notice two months ago. (If I had I'd have known about it.) I said I hadn't. And he said I'd been talking about moving anyway. I told him that was because I was looking for somewhere bigger at some point. Oh, and he called me ignorant because I said my family were my concern.
I don't want to stay somewhere where I can't stay obviously but I'm scared now. I do have post that goes missing at times but I don't know whether the notice has gone missing or if he's trying it on. Or am I being paranoid and thinking too much.
But, I have a family to think about and I can't move out just like that. I really had thought that when I move out I was going to tidy this and improve this and you know... just generally be a good tenant until the very end, get good references,... but now it seems he's shown his true side and I've been a bloody mug.
What if they do say they sent it? I mean how do you know who to believe regarding notice? The ll did say that teh agents had been unable to get in touch with me since I had changed my mobile number over a month ago. I replied that it wouldn't have been too difficult - obviously they could have written to me at my address or via email and that he hadn't had any problems calling my husbands phone.
Just such a mess. SO SORRY for the waffle but trying to get in as much facts as possible.
TIA

G_M

This post will help you answer questions about what Notice the LL has to give you and what Notice you have to give the LL.

Assuming you're in Eng or Wales.

Werdnal

Agent is a wally and LL is a twit.

Assuming you are in England/Wales, you cannot be made to move anywhere without being given a formal, written 2 months notice.

Ignore all requests, sob stories and crap you are being told.

Tell them if they want you out, send you correct notice and you'll think about it! The 2 month notice is notice seeking possession, and even after this expires, you do not legally have to move out until the LL applies to court for a possession order - possibly another 6-8 weeks on top.

Read this for more info on notice requirements:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=52421475&postcount=6



PS G_M you beat me to it today!

BitterAndTwisted

And in the meantime answer no telephone calls from either the landlord or their agent while you're changing the barrel of a lock on both the front and back doors. Keep the old barrrels somewhere handy so you can swap them back when you do go

The landlord needs to serve you with the appropriate formal notice! And go to court to seek possession if you are unwilling to go. He might like to move in next week but he won't be.

Yorkie1

1. Are you in England / Wales?
2. You say you've been there nearly 4 years. Are you in the fixed period of a tenancy, or is your tenancy now on a rolling basis?
3. Did you pay a deposit to the LL / LA?
4. If so, did you receive formal notification from the LL / LA to confirm which scheme it was in, etc?
5. I assume from what you've written that you have received no formal written notice under s.21 LTA that the LL intends to repossess the property?

Basically, you cannot be forced out of your home in the circumstances you describe. [Assuming you're in E/W], the LL cannot evict you unless he has a) protected any deposit, b) given you the info re the deposit scheme, c) served a valid s.21 notice, d) gone to court to obtain an eviction notice.

Informal phone calls do not give the LL any grounds to get you out of the property, unless you choose to agree to go.

The fact you have changed mobile number is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the LL / LA has served notice. It must be a formal, written notice, served in the correct way - either by post, or personal service.

If they insist that they've served the document, demand to see the certificate of posting / recorded delivery details for the notice. And, of course, a copy of the notice.

The bottom line is that you do not have to move out next week. Even if - and it's a huge *even if* - the notice was validly served and your dog just ate it before you read it (or whatever), they still can't get you out without going to court.

In your situation, I would write to the LL / LA (get free certificate of posting from the Post Office), stating that you have not been served with a valid notice and that you will not be vacating the house with a week's notice as verbally requested by the LL / LA.

If you think they will force entry / turf you out, consider also writing that you do not consent to them entering the property in the meantime and changing the barrels of the locks to the property. You can change them back afterwards.

If they do try to force you out physically, call the police immediately. Illegal eviction of a tenant is criminal offence for which a LL / LA can be imprisoned.

The fact that the LL has messed up with his own tenant and completely failed to obey the law in this case, is not your problem to find a resolution to.

That being said, the LL will get his house back at some point, and you do need to start making onward plans.

*edit - the others type more quickly than me but luckily we all agree!*

cran81

Thank you, thank you for the replies and for reading through the waffle.

I'm in England - London.
I'm in a rolling contract.
I was sent my tenancy agreement to my email address but never received info about my deposit - double checked my email and nothing there. I did an online check yesterday and found that it's in one of the schemes.
I never asked for anything because they seemed bloody decent.

I did get another call from the ll and he was insistent that I have to move out next week as he has nowhere to go. I'm inclined to believe it is a sob story but then I wonder whether he really has issued me with notice. I find it hard to believe that people would lie. I certainly wouldn't.

The thing is I know I'm telling the truth but what if everyone is telling the truth and it has got mislaid / not been delivered. I feel bloody bad because I do try to do the right thing and the whole karma thing but the landlords story just doesn't add up. So much for the reference I was hoping for!

Also, in the last conversation the landlord said he could enter the property anytime with a day's notice to do an inspection even if I'm not there. Also, that I had to replace many things, ie carpet has stains so have to get a new carpet instead of having it cleaned... I thought wear and tear were expected. But given his previous actions with other people I doubt he'd have any hesitation about screwing me over. Shame because I was going to be the prefect tenant until the end.

Wouldn't kill people just to be honest and straight forward. I would've moved if I'd known I had notice and he was specific about wanting me out. It is his property after all. But goodness, honesty isn't too much to ask.

G_M

Stop talking to him and WRITE.

Yes, a formal letter. Use the address "for the serving of notices on the lanlord" which should be on your tenancy agreement.

Make it clear that you will be happy to let him come round to do an inspection if
a) you have 24 hours notice AND
b) it is on a day/time that you agree AND
c) that you must be present

Make clear that he cannot come round while you are out. HAVING WRITTEN THAT TO HIM, CHANGE THE LOCKS!

It is easy to change a Yale lock, like this. It costs about £5 and takes you 5 minutes. Do it. Keep the old one to put back when you leave.

As for the 'Notice' - if it was lost in the post, then it was not served on you. LL's problem, not yours. In your letter, make clear you have not been served with any Notice.

Having said all that about your rights, you might want to negotiate something with the LL. If he is so desperate to get in, give him YOUR sob story: nowhere to go etc but if you had some money you could afford to pay for a hotel.....

Assuming you can find a friend/relative to stay with, offer to leave early in return for, say, the equivelant of two months rent from him in cash. But do not leave till you have it!
As my post (above) makes clear - you cannot be made to leave until the LL goes to court.

Forcing you out is illegal eviction which is a criminal offence.

Yorkie1

Wrote this last night before the forum went down for maintenance ...

Even if the LL / LA say they served the s.21 notice correctly, it is not valid if the LL / LA had not given you the required information about the deposit scheme. Not only do they have to have registered it, but also they need to give you the proper information.

In order for them to force you out next week, the following needs to have happened:
a) they have served you with the prescribed information properly. As you haven't received it, I doubt they did this and I doubt even further that they have proof of service;

b) they served you with a written formal s.21 notice after the prescribed information had been provided. As you haven't received it, my doubts from a) are repeated. NB email does not suffice.

c) the s.21 notice was completely correct in its dates. Given their level of competence, I doubt that they would have got this right.

d) they applied to a court for a hearing to evict you. You have not been aware of any notice of a hearing - you'd have received it from the court. I doubt that this, too, has gone astray. I therefore doubt that this has happened.

e) the court hearing has happened and the eviction order has been made. It would also have had to be served on you. As you have not received this order, I doubt that this has taken place.

The LL has a right to enter the property with notice to conduct an inspection for its condition of repair. However, if you refuse permission for him to enter, he must get a court order before he is allowed to enter.

Write to him, and change the locks, as previously advised.

You might find it useful to speak to CAB or Shelter asap if you are still concerned.

It might be worth ringing the police / contacting your local PCSO now to give them a heads-up that you suspect your LL will attempt an illegal eviction next week. And / or contact your local tenancy relations officer at the council, as they may be able to talk sense into your LA and LL.

Is the LA a member of a regulated body? Complain to them about harassment and threats of illegal eviction.

If they try to fob you off by saying that it's just a civil matter, ask to speak to someone more senior. It's the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

See these links for yet more info.
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal_eviction_by_landlord/illegal_eviction
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Privaterenting/Problemsanddisputes/DG_189241
http://www.contractsandagreements.co.uk/illegal-and-rightful-eviction.html