20 year old extension...no completion certificate

jetblack61

Hi all,
We're so very close to exchanging contracts and our solicitor is not happy that the other side haven't provided a completion certificate for the 2-storey extension built in 1990. Apparently it was done on a 'building notice'?

I've done a search of the council planning/building website and both the planning application and the buidling regulations are listed, so it appears they were applied for and the building regs application is listed as 'building works complete'.

Our solicitor is going back to the other side to see if they have any further paperwork on the matter (extension built way before current owner bought house), but we suspect they would have provided what they've got. She is suggesting an indemnity policy because the mortgage company will need satisfying...

What are people's views on this? We need to exchange by next Wednesday and it seems this is the only major hold up...

We had a homebuyers report which didn't have much really to say about the extension:
- "The rear, extension cavity walls: The walls which are approximately 310mm thick, have a masonry inner leaf and an outer skin of rendered masonry with the two leaves being separated by an air gap. The walls are in good structural condition with no significant defects apparent."
- "Internal walls on the ground and first floors have been removed but we cannot confirm if loads have been properly redistributed. Although there are no obvious signs of failure this work may well have needed Building Regulation approval."

Am worried this is going to hold things up - it seems the vendor's solicitors haven't been very speedy with providing documents and if they haven't got any more, then how long is it going to take to resolve this - any danger of us being able to complete next week?!

sirmosh

We bought as house that didn't have building regs and the work was done ~20 years ago, I spoke to the surveyor on top of reading his report to ask his opinion of the work and he said he felt that there were no issues with the quality of it and that he saw no reason to to proceed.

Our solicitor made them get an indemnity policy and sorted it all out, didn't appear to hold things up for us but then again we knew almost straight away rather than a few days before wanting to exchange.

pmlindyloo

First of all there are two separate parts.

First planning permission. When this is granted a formal letter is sent to you to verify that you have been granted planning permission.

Your sellers should have had this when they bought the house.

Secondly building regulations.

If this was done on a building notice the council may not have issued a completion certificate - we did our conversion under a building notice and we had to ask for one.

Basically there are 2 routes.

1. You ask the council for copies but this will invalidate an indemnity policy if there are no records.

2. You get an indemnity policy to satisfy your mortgage lenders.

Since the structure is 20 years old the chances of the council checking are virtually nil (can't remember the number of years up to when they are allowed to check) so an indemnity policy will also be a bit of a waste of money.

However, mortgage lenders and some solicitors have no idea about planning regs and building regs so insist on your having one.

Therefore, if you are satisfied that the extension is safe and structually sound then just pay for the indemnity policy and be done with it - not a lot of money in the whole scheme of things.

pmlindyloo

just found this about 'immunity'.

[URL="javascript:;"]What happens if unauthorised activity is not reported?[/URL]
A: As the authority cannot 'police' the district it relies on persons to report any concerns they have about uses and development taking place. Without the intervention of the Local Planning Authority (LPA) immunity from enforcement action can be acquired after a period of time has elapsed. This is referred to as the Four Year Rule and Ten Year Rule and is applicable as follows: Four years - development (i.e. building works) that is substantially complete; or the use of a building, or part of a building, as a dwelling house. Ten Years - change of use of land or breach of planning conditions.

jetblack61

pmlindyloo wrote: »

just found this about 'immunity'.

This is referred to as the Four Year Rule and Ten Year Rule and is applicable as follows: Four years - development (i.e. building works) that is substantially complete; or the use of a building, or part of a building, as a dwelling house. Ten Years - change of use of land or breach of planning conditions.

This is really helpful pmlindyloo - can you post the link for this so I know where to find it?

Presumably this means that if the vendor won't take out the indemnity policy and as long as our surveyor will confirm that as far as he's concerned it's structurally sound, there would be nothing the council could do to insist it is taken down after this length of time anyway?

If we can be satisfied that it's safe and the council can't insist it is taken down (because of the time elapsed), that's good news :T

pmlindyloo

here's the link:

http://www.horsham.gov.uk/environment/10994.aspx

It is from 2009 but as far as I know there have not been any new regs since.

To be honest, this was more to do with pointing out that the council is unlikely to take any action.

You still have the problem of your mortgage lenders requiring an indemnity policy.

If the vendors won't pay for it then I suggest you do!

These sort of things can hold up your purchase so if I were in your position I would go for the indemnity policy and let your solicitor know asap.

It is amazing how long these things drag on with all the toing and froing between solicitors/sellers/buyers.

Catti

See this helpful booklet

Can I get a completion certificate when the building
work is finished?
5.22 Yes – provided the completed work complies with the Building
Regulations. Where full plans are submitted for work which is
also subject to section 1 of the Fire Precautions Act 1971 or
Part II of the Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations 1997 the
Local Authority must, if satisfied, issue you with a completion
certificate about compliance with the fire safety requirements
of the Building Regulations when the work is finished. In other
circumstances where full plans are submitted, you may ask to be
given a completion certificate when the work is finished, but you
must have made your request when you first submitted your plans.
The local authority is not however required to issue a completion
certificate when the building notice procedure has been used.

jetblack61

Thanks, this is useful - I think though that if we tried to get a retrospective certificate that it wouldn't comply with today's building regs given that the work was done in 1990.

It seems there should be a letter at the very least from the council to say the work has been completed and is all ok. It appears that the completion certificates came in around 1990/1991 and so it may not have had one of those, but there should surely be some evidence that it was 'signed off'?