HSBC refuse to refund debit card fraud

meer53

jamesd wrote: »

ihateyes, yes I'd read the discussion from the start. "We did not consider that the firm had proved gross negligence in this case. The circumstances and the nature of the withdrawals led us to believe that the withdrawals had been made without Mr N’s authority by a family member – who would have been able to observe him entering his PIN for previous cash-machine withdrawals". I do not agree that he has been grossly negligent. He had no reason to believe that the PIN was compromised.

I do think that he should have contacted the bank earlier and that if he had been able to do so within a couple of minutes part of the crime may not have happened, depending on how fast HSBC could be reached and could act. But should have is a much different standard from being grossly negligent.

If someone had left my house stealing my wallet or card and my mobile phone, my first call would have been the Police, not the bank. That would have been my second call.

philD_2

Elle7 wrote: »

I got a new calculator type digipass thing for HSBC this morning - mine broke. Coincidentally, inside the booklet accompanying the device, it advises that you do not use the same number as your card PIN.

Thinking about it, I didn't use my PIN instinctively, and my OH didn't use his. I'd say very few people do.

I don't agree - my reasoning is that it would be another PIN to remember - what is your reasoning?

philD_2

meer53 wrote: »

If someone had left my house stealing my wallet or card and my mobile phone, my first call would have been the Police, not the bank. That would have been my second call.

So what would you have called the police using - your index finger?

Thrugelmir

philD wrote: »

1. Card was stolen - fact.

Then press charges for theft and recovery of the money.

The fact you haven't speaks volumes.

Walk carefully as you may be the one that gets listed for fraud on the NationalHunter database.

ihateyes

[text removed by MSE Forum Team]

What i dont like to do is give people false expectations.

the banks do state once you know your card is lost you should contact them. your problem here is you were honest..... sometimes just sometimes honesty doesnt pay.

im truely sorry for your loss.... but im looking from both sides of the coins.

im with the bank on this one im afraid, but believe me there are many times i think the banks are extremely unreasonable and unfair.

philD_2

ihateyes wrote: »

[text removed by MSE Forum Team]

What i dont like to do is give people false expectations.

the banks do state once you know your card is lost you should contact them. your problem here is you were honest..... sometimes just sometimes honesty doesnt pay.

im truely sorry for your loss.... but im looking from both sides of the coins.

im with the bank on this one im afraid, but believe me there are many times i think the banks are extremely unreasonable and unfair.

I don't have alot to lose - what I reported was factual.

marleyboy

OP - As your card was stolen, it will be classed as theft not fraud. I was in Blackpool once, when my card was either cloned or skimmed, fraud took place and the bank became suspicious of one or two failed attempts at online banking, then some huge purchases were attempted, so they blocked my card.

I only found out after contacting the bank to enquire why my card was declined, they then put me through to the fraud office, they enquired my last genuine purchases, and refunded me the fraudulent ones. At no time did I know my card had been defrauded, had the bank not stopped it, I would have been out of over £2000.

My card was cancelled and I was issued with a new card and account.

In your case, someone took your card and stole money from a cashpoint. At the point of mentioning someone you knew stole your card, the fraud office would leave it in the hands of the Police.

Assuming you got a crime reference number, the perpetrator was caught, admitted the theft, you might stand a chance of being refunded.

Its possible the cashpoint used in this theft has a photo of the transaction as it happened, but it would be a matter for the police to request it to prove theft took place.

As it stands, as harsh as it sounds, your not likely to be refunded by the bank until theft has been proven in a court. The bank would then look for reimbursement from the person who stole the money, which is not necessarily the person who stole the card.

liam8282

Why is this thread still going on?

The OP asked for advice, was given it, but chose to ignore the advice they didn't like.

It is pointless going around in circles.

It is fact that as it stands the OP has ZERO chance of getting their cash back.

There is no evidence or proof of any wrong doing what so ever, only the OPs word that this occurred, which quite frankly is worthless.

jamesd

liam8282, the burden is on the card issuer to prove things, not the card holder. The FOS precedents offer a reasonable prospect of success, particularly given the small time window, 6AM, uncertainty whether it was theft or just stupid joking around by friends and the fact that removal of the phone had also blocked the card holder from contacting HSBC promptly enough to make a difference to the loss sustained. Even if you're certain that a crime is going to happen, if you can't make contact, the card can't get blocked in time to stop it.

ihateyes

jamesd wrote: »

liam8282, the burden is on the card issuer to prove things, not the card holder. The FOS precedents offer a reasonable prospect of success, particularly given the small time window, 6AM, uncertainty whether it was theft or just stupid joking around by friends and the fact that removal of the phone had also blocked the card holder from contacting HSBC promptly enough to make a difference to the loss sustained. Even if you're certain that a crime is going to happen, if you can't make contact, the card can't get blocked in time to stop it.

James the problem here is Phil told HSBC his card was taken. and he failed to notify them for whatever reason. thats why HSBC wont refund.

IF Phil had called them and said the card was never out of his possesion, then HSBC would have to refund the money..... no doubt.