Never commit to works before occupation

jgh

Landlords: Never say to a tenant, yes, I'll do X, Y and Z before you move in. It will go on forever and ever, and the tenant will never be satisfied. Only ever offer what physically exists when they view. That's twice now (ok, in 15 years) I've been bitten.

Going soft I said, ok, I'll change the bath and put a shower in. Plumber a week late because they found a structural flaw on their previous job that caused an overrun. Ok, I've got four weeks in hand, that's ok. Plumber starts my job and every floorboard lifted, every pipe followed, the job is getting longer and longer, those pipes need moving, that wall will have to come down, and the pre-tenant is going in doing daily quality control - oh I don't like that colour, swap the toilet and the basin, put the shower on that wall, not that wall, I want these taps, not those taps.

Moral: if they don't like what they view, tough luck, that's what's on offer, look somewhere else. Never let yourself get drawn into committing works before occupation.

G_M

Oh for goodness sake! What a stupid generalisation!

If work needs doing, repairs need completing, or updating is required, then
a) it makes sense fo you to do it simply to keep your property in good repair and
b) it is only fair to agree with a tenant what will/won't be done

OK - so you got hit by over-runs/complications. Moral?
a) either do the work before re-letting the property or
b) ensure the tenant understands there is always a risk of this and the tenancy start date may have to be delayed or the tenant may have to live with the contractors for a while.

It's about managing your business properly!

edit: and my advice to tenants is to always get a commitment in writing that wok that's identified as needed will be undertaken.

amcluesent

Sounds like you've got a 'professional' tenant there! I reckon they'll live rent-free gor six months before you get posession via the courts.

jgh

G_M wrote: »

If work needs doing, repairs need completing, or updating is required, then

No repairs or completions needed doing, it was perfectly fit for let. They just said: oh, we'd like a shower over the bath - which meant moving the bath, which meant replaceing the bath, with meant removing a wall, etc.

OK - so you got hit by over-runs/complications.

I always budget double-time for overruns. Two weeks? Pencil in a whole month, etc.

Moral?
a) either do the work before re-letting the property or

Moral: Don't undo all the work you did before re-letting the property just to suit one particular viewer. That counts doubly for tenants: Never commit to a property based on works to be done. There's plenty of fish in the sea.

It's about managing your business properly!

Yeah yeah, fully take that on board, I'm just annopyed with myself for not doing that this time.

edit: and my advice to tenants is to always get a commitment in writing that work that's identified as needed will be undertaken.

Doubly agreed. I can't pull out because I've contractually and morally agreed to a schedule of works before occupation.

amcluesent wrote: »

Sounds like you've got a 'professional' tenant there! I reckon they'll live rent-free gor six months before you get posession via the courts.

Ha! They paid six months up-front - which is half the amount needed to pay for the works I reccon 15 years of doing this has made me too soft to be a landlord Anybody want to buy a shop with two upstairs flats, one in need of some work?

G_M

jgh wrote: »

Ha! They paid six months up-front - which is half the amount needed to pay for the works I reccon 15 years of doing this has made me too soft to be a landlord Anybody want to buy a shop with two upstairs flats, one in need of some work?

This could be your biggest problem!

By taking 6 months up front, you have either

1) created a 6 monthly tenancy period, so if/when the tenancy goes periodic the notice period you have to give the tenant is not the usual 2 months it is MUCH longer!

or

2) the rent is specified as monthly (not 6 monthly) but you have taken a deposit = to the extra 5 months which of course has to be scheme registered.

And, being = to more than 2 months rent, is defined as a 'premium' giving the tenant additional rights.

Hope you know what you're doing......

jgh

G_M wrote: »

1) created a 6 monthly tenancy period, so if/when the tenancy goes periodic the notice period you have to give the tenant is not the usual 2 months it is MUCH longer!

I like long tenancies, most of my tenants have stayed with me in excess of five years.

2) the rent is specified as monthly (not 6 monthly) but you have taken a deposit = to the extra 5 months which of course has to be scheme registered.

No the deposit is seperate, already on it's way to DPS.

G_M

jgh wrote: »

.
No the deposit is seperate, already on it's way to DPS.

You misunderstand.

If your tenancy agreement says the rent is a monthly rent, yet you take 6 months in advance, then the extra 5 months rent is legally a 'deposit' (as well as any deposit you have explicitly taken).

There was a long discussion on this forum on the legal consequences of taking rent in advance recently which I'll try to find for you....

jjlandlord

G_M wrote: »

By taking 6 months up front, you have either

1) created a 6 monthly tenancy period, so if/when the tenancy goes periodic the notice period you have to give the tenant is not the usual 2 months it is MUCH longer!

or

2) the rent is specified as monthly (not 6 monthly) but you have taken a deposit = to the extra 5 months which of course has to be scheme registered.

And, being = to more than 2 months rent, is defined as a 'premium' giving the tenant additional rights.

Or the fixed term tenancy is for more than 6 months with rent payable monthly after the first 6 months: Statutory periodic tenancy will be monthly periodic.

Or rent is indeed payable monthly but paid in advance: No problem, but it should be remembered that what has been paid will only become rent month by month.

marliepanda

I think this is more a case of don't make promises you cannot keep.

G_M

jjlandlord wrote: »

Or rent is indeed payable monthly but paid in advance: No problem, but it should be remembered that what has been paid will only become rent month by month.

and hence until then it is a refundable deposit.

franklee

jgh wrote: »

They just said: oh, we'd like a shower over the bath

Sounds like a sound investment to me, I would not rent a property without a shower over the bath or a double shower cubicle. There is an en-suite here with a shower cubicle which is frankly laughable as it's so tiny and it's not been used by us at all we use the shower over the bath.

Surely you thought the shower over the bath was a worthwhile investment or else you would not have agreed to it?

jgh wrote: »

the pre-tenant is going in doing daily quality control - oh I don't like that colour, swap the toilet and the basin, put the shower on that wall, not that wall, I want these taps, not those taps.

Remind yourself who is in charge here, you should have the say on final design and oversee the works and there is no need to chop and change unless the original design wasn't workable. I do not see the tenant at fault here. You pay, you say! Why are you letting the pre-tenant instruct your workmen?

Why is a pre-tenant even allowed in???