Coming to the end of a lease- extending??

Hwhite_2

Hi,

I am coming to the end of my tenancy agreement and love where I am. I have had a phone call today to say that the landlord is willing to do an agreement with a break? What they are saying we can do is sign up for another year but agree that both parties can give notice of leaving. We have been in the property for a year and (if I do say so myself) are very good tenants.

My question is... Why would we need to sign up for another year if they are wanting to bring 'notice' into it? To me its pointless. Has anyone else come across this? If I'm thinking correctly, I would have thought it would have been some sort of a rolling contract or just another 1 year agreement?

I'd really appreciate if anyone has any similar experiences or views on it.

Thanks,

Hwhite

G_M

The new contract probobly guarantees the first 6 months, (depending on the wordingof the break clause), providing certainty/security to both sides, and thereafter gives the illusion of the same. It provides an indication that at this point both sides want the relationship to continue for a year.

But you are right, it is unecessary.

Read this post.

Yorkie1

It gives greater security than a rolling tenancy (i.e. no new tenancy signed at all) - which would mean that you only got 2 months' notice at any point.

But a new 12 month contract with a break clause will give you less security than the same contract without the break clause.

jjlandlord

If the landlord himself proposes to include a break clause, you should consider the conditions of that break clause to be the longest the landlord wants to be bound, for whatever reason.
So first thing is to check the wording of the proposed break clause.

If he was fine being bound for 12 months, then he would have offered a term of 12 months.

You can discuss this with him.

And obviously, if your contacts are actually with a letting agent it could just be the agent trying to extract a 12 month commission from the landlord...

Hwhite_2

Thank you all for your replies, you've been very helpful (G_M, you're post on renting terms is great). After reading them, I spoke with the letting agent again today and my landlord has said that he's more than happy for the house to be a long term let- i have to pay an arrangement fee again which is £120 for another year but I think I would have liked it to be another year full stop for my peace of mind (but then I understand that circumstances can change). Thank you again!

G_M

Hwhite wrote: »

.... I spoke with the letting agent again today and my landlord has said that he's more than happy for the house to be a long term let- i have to pay an arrangement fee again which is £120 for another year

So are you being offered a secure 12 months, or is there a break clause (removing your security)?

Did you speak to the LL yourself, or is this just what the agent is saying?

The agent, of course, just wants a new agreement signed (ANY agreement) so that they can charge both you and the LL a fee.

Have you tried negotiating the fee? Frankly, £120 to print off a contract they already have on their computer......!!

Have you discussed with the LL yourself?

Werdnal

Regardless of the terms of the new tenancy, the agent is obviously looking to get you to sign something, as it allows him to charge you (both!) for a renewal. As you rightly point out, an SPT or rolling contract is the obvious choice if either you or LL are happy with the lack of security provided by a new fixed term, plus neither you or LL have to pay the agent for printing off another agreement and lending you a pen to sign it!

Do you know the LL - approach them direct, suggest an SPT and tell the agent to stick his renewal fee where the sun don't shine!

Hwhite_2

It's with a break clause. I have told them that I will think about it as its not up for renewal until the beginning of September. Unfortunately I can only talk to the letting agents as I don't know who my LL is and he lives in Dubai (he apparently rents 4 houses out through the agency). I don't mind paying a fee if I have the security for another 12 months, but seeing as the security isn't there, I really don't want to pay. Seeing as I can't talk to the LL direct, should I just argue my point with the letting agent then? Thanks again!

G_M

Hwhite wrote: »

It's with a break clause. I have told them that I will think about it as its not up for renewal until the beginning of September. Unfortunately I can only talk to the letting agents as I don't know who my LL is and he lives in Dubai (he apparently rents 4 houses out through the agency). I don't mind paying a fee if I have the security for another 12 months, but seeing as the security isn't there, I really don't want to pay. Seeing as I can't talk to the LL direct, should I just argue my point with the letting agent then? Thanks again!

If you are unhappy about paying this exhorbitant fee for the sake of 6 months security your options are:

1) write to the agent requesting the LL's address in Dubai (Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 ). Agent has 21 days to comply. contact the LL - there's plenty of time

2) negotiate with the agent over the fee. eg offer £25 and go up to £50

3) negotiate with the agent over the break clause - get it removed so you have 12 months security

4) do nothing. Stall the agent ("I'm thinking it over"; "I've lost the contract"; "It's in the post" etc) when September comes, stay one day beyond your fixed term and you'll be on a Periodic tenancy. No fee.

Hwhite_2

After posting this thread, I wrote a letter to my LA saying that I wanted to go on a periodic tenancy, therefore no fee is needed to be paid, also asking for my LL’s contact details. I had no response from this letter (dated June!), but today received a letter from them;

‘If we do not hear from you in writing within the next 7 days, we will send you the documents for your signature to extend the tenancy for a further 6 month term. In accordance with our agreed terms, an extension fee will be payable and an invoice will be sent to you with the new Tenancy Agreement.

I called them and asked if they received my letter, to get a response of ‘no’ (note to self, always send important letters as recorded delivery!), anyway, I said that I am not willing to sign the agreement, as a 12 month contract with a break clause is unnecessary, so I just want a periodic tenancy. She’s said that what ever I do, I have to pay the admin fee as it is in the agreement that I signed, she then pointed me to a section. Now, when I signed the agreement, I didn’t understand 100% but I still don’t think it said this. Could someone clarify for me?

‘Costs and Charges’
3.95 To pay the LL or the LA all reasonable costs and expenses incurred by the LL or the LA (including but not limited to the costs and fees of the LL’s solicitors and other professional advisors) in respect of:-
3.95.1 the recovery from the Tenant of any rent or any other monies owed in beach of this agreement;
3.95.2 the enforcment of any of the provisions of this Agreement;
3.95.3the service of any notice relating to a breech by the Tenant of any of the Tenant’s Obligations under this agreement whether or not the breech shall result in court prceedings.

3.96To pay part of the costs, as agreed and set out in the Tenants application form, for the preperation and grant of this agreement, including any reasonable fees that may be payable to a Superior Ladlord.

Now the only bit that I can see of being relevance, is the last part – but it says ‘this agreement’ – well I did pay the admin fee for this agreement, it doesn’t say any subsequence agreements, or changes. Also, it says ‘Reasonable charges/fees’ – they have never stated the costs when we signed, and also £120 is not reasonable for the one phone call they’ve had to answer from me, and the tenancy agreement that was photocopied (poorly) and sent out.

I am always willing to pay my own way, but we are saving for a house and like most people, have better things to spend £120 on.

So, after my update, my questions are;
1. Do I have a right as a Tenant to go on a periodic tenancy?
2. I know they could give me notice for not paying the fee (not that I think they would or the LL would like it) but could they hold my deposit back for not paying it?

I am going to write an email to her tonight, but I want to make sure I have all of my rights/facts correct.

Thanks again for any advice!

jjlandlord

Nothing in what you quoted states that you should pay anything in the event of a new agreement being drawn up.

Now, of course, should you and your landlord agree to draw a new agreement, part of the deal may include you paying costs to do that. But this is really up to negotiation.

In any case, no fee can be due for doing nothing...

At this point I would just make clear to them, that you do not wish to draw any new agreement, and point out that this was already discussed with them over the phone and through previous letters.
Ask your post office for a free certificate of postage whenever sending first class mail to the agent. A letter can be lost but obviously they cannot use this excuse every single time...