Power of Attorney....

mamabuddah

don't you just love it when friends think you're the only one computer literate (comes from all the great tips I pass on from here...lol)

anyway question is:

Is there a way of deciding who has POA?

Situation appears to be...elderly adult, some savings, pensions regularly paid into bank, being "looked after" by stepson, who appears to be making regular withdrawals from a/cs and also pays himself a wage of £300 plus per week to care for stepfather...possibly just at this stage a "signatory" of some sort (who doesn't really look after elderly adult)

Son who has just got sight of bank statements etc (as they live hundreds of miles away) and from the descriptions I have heard it would appear that stepson is milking the a/cs.

Son does not want any assets or monies ( will at moment states equal split) but does not like the thought of his father being robbed, which, on the face of it ( other things being done as well that I don't want to air on here) appears to be the case.

If POA exists and the stepson has it...can it be overturned?...is there a hierarchy as to who can hold it? If current status is just as signatory on banking details will POA over ride this.

An now perhaps what may be a problem...father is showing signs of memory loss, does not remember what money has been withdrawn for, repeats things...if POA is in place already with stepson, can it be overturned?...is it too late now with fathers health, should it have been done differently if fathers health ( memory) was poor at the time.

I hope there's a glass of wine in this for me...it's not easy typing when someone's sitting beside you saying..."oh and don't forget to say...."

thanks

agrinnall

You should start your enquiries here:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/about/opg

dzug1

If there is a Power of Attorney in place then you can complain to the OPG that you think it is being misused. (Assuming it's been registered with them).

There is no heirarchy - the PoA is granted to whoever the donor (ie the elderly adult) chooses to give it to - it's entirely his shout.

If he is not capable of granting it, then relatives/others have to agree amongst themselves who will apply (for deputyship). If they can't agree then the OPG will take it on themselves - and charge accordingly.

If there is a PoA in place then whoever has it can change signatories on accounts.

[Deleted User]

When a LPofA is drawn up the issue of expenses should be discussed with the donor. There is opportunity on the forms for fees to be agreed - fees for work carried out and fees actually incurred i.e travel.

If the Attorneyship was being managed by a professional - i.e a solicitor - one would not expect this to be done for free.

Nor should it be expected that it would be done for free by anyone else. Some finance and property affairs are complex and require much time and much input to manage, especially if the Attorney is not local to the Donor. All Attorneys are lawfully obliged to be able able to account for all expenses so scrupulous record keeping is essential.

As already stated above, any doubts about the Attorney should be referred to the OPG in the first instance.

troubleinparadise

Situation appears to be...elderly adult, some savings, pensions regularly paid into bank, being "looked after" by stepson, who appears to be making regular withdrawals from a/cs and also pays himself a wage of £300 plus per week to care for stepfather...possibly just at this stage a "signatory" of some sort (who doesn't really look after elderly adult)

Is that "wage" being declared officially? If there is a question of mental capacity of the elderly gentleman, whoever is handling his money via POA/LPA needs to be sure that all transactions are recorded (as mentioned already in this thread) for transparency.

Should it become necessary through declining health for the gentleman to have care in his home greater than that provided by the stepson (and caring for a person with dementia is very demanding on many levels), if he is above the financial limit he will be self-funding, but the paperwork must still be kept. If he falls below the limit and will be funded via Social Services, they will do a financial assessment. Should there be any suggestion of deprivation of assets they will be unearthed and dealt with strongly.

ps If he is not already claiming it, the gentleman is probably entitled to claim Attendance Allowance due to his declining health - which could offset some of these care costs being paid to the stepson. Worth taking a look at:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Disabledpeople/DG_10018710

John_Pierpoint

Lasting Power of Attorney (as against the previous Enduring Power of Attorney) requires someone to be the family representative (not automatically the attorney) and also requires all (reasonable) family members to be informed of the situation.

However it will never be possible to avoid a "suggestible" elderly person being defrauded; or siblings falling out over who carried what share of the "burden" and what they got in return.
In my own family I can think of an outcome that was 100% of the day to day care in exchange for all the house and 2/3rds of the money and investments.

stevepett

Sorry JP, you're wrong.
Lasting Powers of Attorney were lovingly designed so that the family can be TOTALLY excluded. No power, no notification, no nothing.

They were almost designed as the perfect fraud weapon, which is why it absolutely crucial to get them in place before anyone gets to the suggestible stage.

A half way competent fraudster can have the bank accounts emptied and the house sold (or mortgaged to the hilt) in 3 months, without the family having a clue. Or indeed, any right to be informed.

So please, please get APs LPAs in place at the earliest convenience. In reality, everyone over 18 should have 2 LPAs. No one knows when they will have an accident or serious illness or just lose the plot.

We do LPAs because they are (pretty much) the only game in town, but they are seriously flawed, and far from an improvement on the EPA regime.

Pollycat

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Lasting Power of Attorney (as against the previous Enduring Power of Attorney) requires someone to be the family representative (not automatically the attorney) and also requires all (reasonable) family members to be informed of the situation.

Just started looking into LPoA for our Mum.

As I understand it, you can name up to 5 people ( called 'appointing people to be told') to be informed that LPoA is being applied for (so they can raise any concerns if they think anything 'iffy' is going on) but you don't have to name anyone.

However, if you don't name anyone you then have to have 2 'certificate providers' instead of one.

John_Pierpoint

Thanks both of you.
Personally I have an Enduring Power of Attorney, though my wife has been having problems with her (now late) mother's EPA, with people who should know better suggesting it is now obsolete.

My only experience of LPA was back in 2008 when it was new and incredibly bureaucratic - as a family it never occurred to us that the "family friendly" new structure could be other than the obvious choice. [but sadly some people have lost all links with their family].

When the relative died 3 months later, the bureaucrats were still raising obscure points with the solicitor [I am pretty sure that both parties were learning on the job at the expense of the client] So I never got to have any experience of the two forms of Lasting Power of Attorney.

I have a feeling that, like a lot of safety legislation, the exercise is more "anus protectus" for the bureaucrats (and jobs for the boys) rather than an effective procedure for protecting the assets and well being of the vulnerable.