parking

juejuejools

hi can any body please help i got a fine of £60 pound from cps car parking , because my front tiyer , was over white line bye 2in, they, said iwas stoping some one else parking , but there was only 4 cars in there an there room for about 50 cars , any advice do i appeal , or pay the fine please help thanks julia

Stephen_Leak

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011, 1SE02759, the Peel Centre case.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If this is a free car park or they paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you do owe the CPO anything, then you should write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”.

In any event, advise the CPO that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions have been judged to constitute harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. That ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with them.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with chasing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve done this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a Nigerian e-mail scammer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

mikey72

Stephen_Leak wrote: »

...........In any event, advise the CPO that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions have been judged to constitute harassment under the terms of http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/contents" The Protection from Harassment Act 1997" ................

I've seen that said before, what cases were there, as I haven't found any, and what's been the average payout to the registered keeper? Just curious.

[Deleted User]

juejuejools wrote: »

I got a fine of £60 pound from cps car parking

No you didn't.

You got a speculative invoice.

Ignore it, likewise the follow-up letters.

mikey72

PeterPudding wrote: »

There has not been any, it's all usual MSE propaganda bu@@@@it

I'm sure there will someone to link onto the relevant cases.

juejuejools

sorry cant spell ,but you get what i mean , dose the 2in of my front wheel ,being over the white line,mean i have to pay for the bay next to me , even if it would not stop any one from parking there , there was only 4 cars in there , and it holds about 50 cars julia

Stephen_Leak

I believe that "PeterPudding” has a connection with the private parking industry. If so, then it is possible that any comments they make may have a hidden agenda.

The usual culprit is Michael Perkins, the owner of Combined Parking Solutions (CPS).

Posting on internet forums using aliases is against the British Parking Association (BPA)’s own guidelines ...

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/Online Blog and Chat Room Guidelines.pdf.

The post has been reported. The user has been added to my ignore list.

Stephen_Leak

juejuejools wrote: »

sorry cant spell ,but you get what i mean , dose the 2in of my front wheel ,being over the white line,mean i have to pay for the bay next to me , even if it would not stop any one from parking there , there was only 4 cars in there , and it holds about 50 cars julia

If there was always a space free during the duration of your stay, then the car park owner has lost £0.00.

If, at any time, there were no free spaces, then the car park owner has lost something. But, how much? How long was the car (or cars) that couldn't park going to park for?

juejuejools

there was loads spaces to park , i have taken a pic just around my car aloan was 6 , so can you please advice on what you think i should do

Stephen_Leak

juejuejools wrote: »

there was loads spaces to park , i have taken a pic just around my car aloan was 6 , so can you please advice on what you think i should do

My post #2 tells you all you need to know.

ManxRed

mikey72 wrote: »

I've seen that said before, what cases were there, as I haven't found any, and what's been the average payout to the registered keeper? Just curious.

To my knowledge there haven't been any cases specific to private parking before - it is relatively new advice that is being offered here so we are not aware of any cases that have gone through yet, however if you knew anything about contract law you would know that the legal principal is sound.

Watteau v Fenwick would be the appropriate case law.

Why not read this page and improve your subject matter knowledge?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_agency