Periodic tenancy, one month notice to quit, legalities?

moosticks

I really didn't know what to name this thread.

Long and short: I've been served an s21 and me and my family must leave the property by September 30th. I've found somewhere for us to go and can move at the end of July. I intend to give my landlord the "one clear month" notice period from the end of this month to the end of July.

My landlord is a Class A swear word. He is demanding we give two month's notice, but I know legally he can't do that. We've adhered to every unreasonable and illogical demand he's made, but I refuse to jump through this hoop. Where can I find the legal documentation to show him I know my rights and I'm not just making it up? What act/section/clause is it?

A little more on the situation, as I'm here; my landlord is my brother and sister in law. This house was utterly trashed when we moved in (everything was broken and urinated on by previous tenants) and we moved in to put it right (husband works in construction, LLs live in Australia).

Something must be going down over there as they are telling everyone we haven't paid rent (we have) and that is why they are kicking us out (we had sent an email prior to this explaining money was going to be tight due to me being pregnant and due to give birth, had asked if we could split payments over two week periods rather than one big whack at the start of each month, and if they wanted us to move we would - in response to which we received the s21).

We don't have a deposit on the place, and it's in far better state now than it was. They do, however, owe my husband 14k (nutshell: husband broke his neck in a car accident, was awarded a large sum as compensation, suffered severe PTSD and was in no state to be dealing with large sums, so gave it to them to "look after"). This has been acknowledged many times in emails, but they are seemingly using it as a ransom to get us to do what they want on their terms. I have a feeling if we don't jump through this final hoop they are going to try and retain the money. Is that also illegal? I see them using the 14k as a sort of deposit, but by holding that money and not registering it in a scheme then using it in the way a deposit is usually is, is that breaking a law? And if so, what do I do about it?

Thanks in advance for any help with the matter.

DVardysShadow

OK, are you definitely out of the fixed period of the AST? And is the rental period from the 1st of one month to the first of another?

If so, your BiL can shove it.

It is probably best to say that the 14k is separate from the rent - although why he has 14k of yours and you are finding it difficult to pay rent is a bit of a mystery. Time to ask for your 14k back, I think.

moosticks

Definitely out of the fixed period. They told us we'd have to sign a new one five days after I had a baby and two weeks from the day they expected us to sign. I told them I wasn't signing anything right after having a baby as they'd known for 8 months I was giving birth soon and should have said before if they wanted us to sign again! Initially they said it would revert to periodic and stay that way.

We have asked for the money back. They've said they'll give it back when we leave, but made loads of conditions to go along with it. So far we've done everything, but the notice period is the one I don't want to bend to as we've found the perfect place.

So...where can I find the legal documentation?

tbs624

moosticks wrote: »

I really didn't know what to name this thread.

Long and short: I've been served an s21 and me and my family must leave the property by September 30th. I've found somewhere for us to go and can move at the end of July. I intend to give my landlord the "one clear month" notice period from the end of this month to the end of July.

My landlord is a Class A swear word. He is demanding we give two month's notice, but I know legally he can't do that. We've adhered to every unreasonable and illogical demand he's made, but I refuse to jump through this hoop. Where can I find the legal documentation to show him I know my rights and I'm not just making it up? What act/section/clause is it?

If you pay your rent monthly then you only have to give one months notice, once on a stat periodic agreement.(LL must give you two months notice) You need to align your notice with the tenancy period so look back to the expiry date of your original Fixed Term tenancy. If that finished on say, the 19th of the month then the subsequent periods operate from 20th of one month to the 19th of the next. In that situation you would need to give your one months notice by the 19th of the month.

Couple of legal cases for you Laine v Cadwallader and Church Commissioners for England v Meya link

Note that service of a s21 notice is not a notice to quit - merely notice that the LL intends to seek repossession of the property and the LL needs to obtain a court order if the T does not move out. Sept 30th will be the date after which the LL can proceed to court, not the date on which you must actually vacate.

A little more on the situation, as I'm here; my landlord is my brother and sister in law. This house was utterly trashed when we moved in (everything was broken and urinated on by previous tenants) and we moved in to put it right (husband works in construction, LLs live in Australia).

Something must be going down over there as they are telling everyone we haven't paid rent (we have) and that is why they are kicking us out (we had sent an email prior to this explaining money was going to be tight due to me being pregnant and due to give birth, had asked if we could split payments over two week periods rather than one big whack at the start of each month, and if they wanted us to move we would - in response to which we received the s21).

Have they formally given you an address in Eng/Wales at which Notices relating to the tenancy may be served? I f they have niot then they cannot collect rent until such time as they do provide you with it.

You need to be aware that unless they have made specific arrangements with HMRC you may be responsible for deducting tax they owe from the rent.

We don't have a deposit on the place, and it's in far better state now than it was. They do, however, owe my husband 14k (nutshell: husband broke his neck in a car accident, was awarded a large sum as compensation, suffered severe PTSD and was in no state to be dealing with large sums, so gave it to them to "look after"). This has been acknowledged many times in emails, but they are seemingly using it as a ransom to get us to do what they want on their terms. I have a feeling if we don't jump through this final hoop they are going to try and retain the money. Is that also illegal? I see them using the 14k as a sort of deposit, but by holding that money and not registering it in a scheme then using it in the way a deposit is usually is, is that breaking a law? And if so, what do I do about it?

I think you need to separate the two matters, The return of the 14k needs solicitor input. The LLs don't need to have scheme registered any money that was not expressly handed over as a tenancy deposit. You can get a fixed fee appointment with a solicitor to go through the outline of all of this.

DVardysShadow

I think your biggest problem is the 14K. Ask for it back within 7 days and take no nonsense about conditions. Just get them in an email or something if you can. If the conditions relate to the house or if they deduct money from your 14k on account of the house, they would be putting a foot wrong - because there is a limit on deposits of 2 months rent AIUI.

moosticks

tbs624 wrote: »

Couple of legal cases for you Laine v Cadwallader and Church Commissioners for England v Meya link

Great, thanks.

Have they formally given you an address in Eng/Wales at which Notices relating to the tenancy may be served? I f they have niot then they cannot collect rent until such time as they do provide you with it.

You ENTIRELY lost me here. Would this be included in the tenancy agreement? Can we not just give them notice via email? I believe the address on the tenancy agreement is their address in Australia...

You need to be aware that unless they have made specific arrangements with HMRC you may be responsible for deducting tax they owe from the rent.

I haven't got a clue about this either. How do I find this out, and what happens if they haven't?

moosticks

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I think your biggest problem is the 14K. Ask for it back within 7 days and take no nonsense about conditions. Just get them in an email or something if you can. If the conditions relate to the house or if they deduct money from your 14k on account of the house, they would be putting a foot wrong - because there is a limit on deposits of 2 months rent AIUI.

Does demanding the money back have any legal bearing?

DVardysShadow

moosticks wrote: »

Does demanding the money back have any legal bearing?

On what? Withholding the money from you may put them in the wrong over both the money and the tenancy. But as long as you are clear that the money is nothing to do with the tenancy, there is no real bearing.

moosticks

Blargh.

I still need to know where to point them in regards to the notice... How do I prove that I'm not just making it up?

RAS

moosticks wrote: »

You ENTIRELY lost me here. Would this be included in the tenancy agreement? Can we not just give them notice via email? I believe the address on the tenancy agreement is their address in Australia...?

In which case this is not a valid rental agreement. The address for the serving of notice must be in England and Wales if the house is in England and Wales. Without this you do not have to pay rent.

moosticks wrote: »

I haven't got a clue about this either. How do I find this out, and what happens if they haven't?

Do they use an estate agent? If not they MUST have given you as certificate from HMRC confirming that they are paying tax on their income.

Otherwise, YOU are liable for deducting 25% of the rent and paying the HMRC. If you do not do this, you may have to pay the tax debt to the HMRC personally.

Do not pay any more rent until you have this certificate

BitterAndTwisted

moosticks wrote: »

Blargh.

I still need to know where to point them in regards to the notice... How do I prove that I'm not just making it up?

Have a look in the Shelter site: I'm sure they have guidance to tenants for this precise situation.

Whatever the proper legal procedures are, they've got FOURTEEN GRAND of your money and they're in a foreign country, so I might be minded to not argue with them about it and just pay them the extra month's rent and hope they come up with your cash.