Chargeback - lost item and money! No Paypal seller protection. Advice please

twotimes

Hi there, advice please.

I sold an item on ebay. I posted the item via Parcelforce Express delivery. Item was delivered to the buyer's address on the Paypal transaction page and proof of delivery was viewable on Parcelforce website with electronic copy of signature.

Buyer files unauthorised account activity claim with Paypal. Funds temporarily removed from my account. I provide full tracking details. Paypal find no evidence of unauthorised activity and return funds.

Buyer then files another unauthorised card activity claim with their credit card company. Company does a chargeback and takes funds from my account. Credit card company uphold the claim and give the money to the buyer.

This process has taken so long that the electronic copy of signature has now disappeared from the Parcelforce website. Consequently Paypal say I'm not eligible for seller protection. I now have neither the item nor the money.

I have been advised by Paypal that they cannot do anything now as they can't appeal against the credit card company once they have made a decision. The credit card company cannot help me either. Parcelforce have said they will email me a copy of the signature, but I can't do anything with it now.

Is there anything I can do to get my money back? Is there anything I can do in future to ensure this doesn't happen again? I followed every step to ensure I met Paypal seller protection by getting the electronic proof of delivery with signature, so assumed I was covered. Apparently not.

I've been told I can file a report with ActionFraud but I'm not sure that will help with recovering any money.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

techspec

Its Paypal who need reporting to Actionfraud.

How they get away with things like this is beyond me. I'm surprised they don't have their head office in Nigeria.

www.paypalsucks.com
www.paypalwarning.com

in_the_Cotswolds

Personally I'd sue the buyer. It's never happened to me but reading on these boards there are people who have done it and I would have no hesitation in doing it myself.

theonlywayisup

Unfortunately from experience I can tell you that the only thing that will get a quick resolution is a proof of posting. If you have it then you will be fine, if you don't then it may be a hard slog and may not be fruitful.

Taadaa

I can't advise on how to proceed with Paypal or ActionFraud, but I'm sure someone else will be able to help. Make sure you get the evidence you need from ParcelForce to keep your options open.

There is some advice on the Seller Central (eBay forum, look under community) about blocking buyers that don't match certain requirements eg registered in countries with a high scamming rate. You might find it useful to post there - posts like this are almost a daily occurence.

The best way to protect yourself in the future (imho, some will disagree of course) - don't sell high value items on eBay (£hundreds) unless you offer cash on collection or bank transfer only, which apparently can't be reversed. It's not worth the hassle for private sellers who really can't afford the loss. (PS you HAVE to offer Paypal as a payment option; you don't have to accept it for all listings).

F&L

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Unfortunately from experience I can tell you that the only thing that will get a quick resolution is a proof of posting. If you have it then you will be fine, if you don't then it may be a hard slog and may not be fruitful.

I would agree with this. Proof of posting is all that is needed for a credit card chargeback not proof of delivery. Did you send it by ParcelForce from a post office or was it collected from you? If you have a receipt with the buyer's details on from ParcelForce then this is what you need to send to paypal. The fact that they accepted the proof of delivery for the first chargeback shows that they should have fought this harder.

twotimes

Thanks for the replies.

I have the collection receipt with the buyer's address on it (Parcelforce collected from me). I also have the tracking number which shows the item was delivered.

The item is a £150+ item so I believe a copy of the signature on delivery is required for seller protection. A signature was obtained, I've seen it for myself, it's just that when Paypal went to the Parcelforce website to check, it was after the length of time that Parcelforce keep signatures on their website.

Paypal are trying to wriggle out of the Seller Protection by saying that there was no signature.

accyuklad

wont police do anything as its fraud because you could give the person address that you sent it to

theonlywayisup

twotimes wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.

I have the collection receipt with the buyer's address on it (Parcelforce collected from me). I also have the tracking number which shows the item was delivered.

The item is a £150+ item so I believe a copy of the signature on delivery is required for seller protection. A signature was obtained, I've seen it for myself, it's just that when Paypal went to the Parcelforce website to check, it was after the length of time that Parcelforce keep signatures on their website.

Paypal are trying to wriggle out of the Seller Protection by saying that there was no signature.

A signature is required for an item of £150 or more. For INR disputes you must have the signature viewable online. However for seller protection on unauthorised chargebacks (as in this case), all that Paypal require is a certificate of posting. You need to be persistent as they invariably don't know their own rules.

Ring them and ask them for details on uploading your certificate of posting and get them to attach it to the case, along with telling them to make reference to SP policy Point 11.7 as here

https://cms.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_GB#11.%20Seller%20Protection%20Programme