Bailiffs allowed entry for different debt-can they now force entry?

Gemini33

fatbelly wrote: »

By employing a locksmith and charging the debtor for their services. A levy changes the ownership of the goods levied from the debtor to the bailiff. You cannot obstruct the bailiff from accessing their goods.

You can call their bluff on this but it may backfire.

Too many complicated terms, too much legalese.

I like to keep things simple, it has always worked for me. This is your house, not theirs, this is the stuff you have paid for not them. It is common sense that no one is allowed to break into your house and take what they like, this is called burglary.

I know, I had the courts telling me they were going to do the same thing, I told them if anyone attempted to break In, I would not be able to distinguish whether you are a thief or not and would use self defence.

They turned up, looked at me standing at the window and drove off. This is our door, my lock I paid for!

I owe debt to a credit company not the mafi a

Of course, you need to pay this debt back but this is a different story.

This to me is just common sense, I live on a land that is governed by common law.

Thanks

fatbelly

Gemini33 wrote: »

Too many complicated terms, too much legalese.

I like to keep things simple, has always worked for me. Thanks

OK let's keep it simple. No long words.

Bailiffs can break in to your property.

They do it with the help of a man who pick locks.

They may ask the police to attend if they think you will try to stop them.

They can do this because you have their stuff inside your house.

Your stuff became their stuff when they came in before, and wrote it down on a form.

HTH

Gemini33

fatbelly wrote: »

OK let's keep it simple. No long words.

Bailiffs can break in to your property.

They do it with the help of a man who pick locks.

They may ask the police to attend if they think you will try to stop them.

They can do this because you have their stuff inside your house.

Your stuff became their stuff when they came in before, and wrote it down on a form.

HTH

I disagree with your statements.

Unless they have a court order to do so and unless they have reason to believe you have valuables in your house, they have no right to do this.

It is not their stuff, it is your stuff. It was your signature that created the credit in the first place and without your signature, nothing could have ever existed.

I did not realise I could walk around with a piece of paper and write down what I would like on a form and claim it as mine. Maybe tomorrow I will go around with a form and claim a new Mercedes from someone.

I have 3 playstation 3's in my house right this minute, if I was in the same situation, they would have no right to do anything.

They need to be able to prove that the item is yours, otherwise you can send them a bill from the original owner to the value of goods they have stolen.

Being broke does not given anyone the right to come into your house and help themselves, I dont care what it says in any statuary law, it is common sense you should not do this.

I feel as if your scaremongering and somewhat misleading words are not welcome by myself.

I had enough debts to know what they can and cant do, even the court collectors left me alone.

EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO HOUSING, FOOD, CLOTHING AND CLEAN WATER IN THIS COUNTRY.

If they take what you have left which is stuff you could have sold on for these priority items, then that is a crime.

fatbelly

Good grief.

Calm down.

Read this factsheet in the morning.

Factsheet | Bailiffs and Council Tax

All I was doing was answering your question 'how can they possibly gain entry without criminal damages?' to which the answer is 'with a locksmith'

This was in relation to a situation where the op's girlfriend had already let the bailiff in and signed 'one of those things where you agree to pay or they seize your goods' i. e. a walking possession agreement.

None of us like the law regarding bailiffs, but the only way to navigate it is to try to understand the basic principles and that will involve some specific terms like 'levy'.

Feel free to have another rant if you want. I'm off for today.

Gemini33

I apologise but despite who says and what laws says just because someone has been in my house once they can come in again.

I find this utterly ludicrous. I dont know what type of law it is, most likely a statuary law but I dont agree with it and it is not common sense.

Why should I have to let anyone into my house?

I find it very frustrating even if I am not the victim, I again apologise but I have been here and worn the coat, talking about bailiffs and even discussing about them like they are my God makes my blood boil!

I was not ranting or shouting, the Caps lock was to emphasise the point that these are our basic rights.

INFORMATION
Bailiffs cannot get the police to help them break in.

From the reference you gave me.

Using a pick lock is breaking into my house as far as I am concerned.

When will we as a society stand up for what is right?!

Obviously this is harming people, making them stressed and clearly not right, I am all for these types of actions to those who wish to avoid paying their debts even when they can afford to do so but there are a huge amount of people who have innocently been made unemployed and dont have no money.

Why have we accepted as a society to embrace these laws? They make no sense and strip us of our human rights.

All the best

Squirrel29

I do agree that the bailiff system stinks but that's why it's important to learn your rights re bailiffs before letting them in to levy. Sadly though, it's the law and we have to abide by that. Bailiffs have been around hundreds of years. Also I can see the point of the creditor.. If I was owed money and this was last resort after all other methods have failed, I'd want bailiffs to recoup my losses by seizing goods.

We have to obey the laws or else anarchy will ensue!

fatbelly

A new day...

Is it safe to come out now?

A brief summary of bailiff law before I unsubscribe to this thread:

1. A bailiff is only acting as a bailiff if they hold a warrant from a Magistrates or County Court. If they don't hold this, they have no more rights than a debt collector, which is none.

2. A bailiff cannot force entry on a first visit (except in the case of a criminal fine from the Magistrates Court). However 'peaceable entry' is not the same as 'letting them in'. Entering though an unlocked door or window counts as peaceable entry.

3. For Council Tax, there are prescribed charges e.g. a bailiff can only charge £42.50 for two visits if he fails to levy.

4. If they get in, they will list goods (levy) and become the legal owners of those goods. They will not generally remove goods (don't believe the TV programmes) but will invite you to sign a walking possession agreement, which means you agree to pay them and they agree to let you have the use of the goods. The fees become larger and more open to abuse at this point.

5. You are also giving the bailiff the right to force entry on a subsequent visit. They will use that right to put pressure on you to pay.

6. A bailiff will not often exercise the right to force entry but when it happens it is done using a locksmith and the police may be invited to attend if there is a risk of a breach of the peace.

7. A bailiff can 'levy' (seize/distrain) your goods from other places than inside your house, e.g. workplace or a car on the road, or items in the garden. That doesn't give them the right to force entry to your house on a subsequent visit because the right is about accessing their goods.

paulmapp8306

Gemini33 wrote: »

I apologise but despite who says and what laws says just because someone has been in my house once they can come in again.

I find this utterly ludicrous. I dont know what type of law it is, most likely a statuary law but I dont agree with it and it is not common sense.

Why should I have to let anyone into my house?

I find it very frustrating even if I am not the victim, I again apologise but I have been here and worn the coat, talking about bailiffs and even discussing about them like they are my God makes my blood boil!

I was not ranting or shouting, the Caps lock was to emphasise the point that these are our basic rights.

INFORMATION
Bailiffs cannot get the police to help them break in.

From the reference you gave me.

Using a pick lock is breaking into my house as far as I am concerned.

When will we as a society stand up for what is right?!

Obviously this is harming people, making them stressed and clearly not right, I am all for these types of actions to those who wish to avoid paying their debts even when they can afford to do so but there are a huge amount of people who have innocently been made unemployed and dont have no money.

Why have we accepted as a society to embrace these laws? They make no sense and strip us of our human rights.

All the best

OK - basic answer to this. It doesnt matter what you think is right or what is commin sence - it only matters what the law says, right or wrong, agree or not.

Unfortunatley your wrong, and we as a society have agreed to the laws because its a ballance. What you think is correct may be completely the opposite from what someone else thinks is correct (in this case the debtor regards his goods and access to his home v the creditor and his right to payment).

You say breaking in and taking stuff is burgulry - but by the same token taking stuff and not paying for it (which is why there is a debt) is stealing.

RobertoMoir

Gemini33 wrote: »

I disagree with your statements.

Unless they have a court order to do so and unless they have reason to believe you have valuables in your house, they have no right to do this.

It is not their stuff, it is your stuff. It was your signature that created the credit in the first place and without your signature, nothing could have ever existed.

If they have a court order, as you say, which for council tax would be the liability order that they are collecting against, and the debtor's other half has signed a walking possession order, by the sound of thing, which indeed gives them the right to force entry to retrieve the goods described on the levy connected to the walking possession order.

Sorry if this seems "wrong" to you. Sorry if you find it difficult to understand some of the terms I'm using. But the law says what it says, and it means what it means, and talking about "common sense" doesn't change that.

Lets discuss one claim in particular:

Bailiffs cannot get the police to help them break in.

This is absolutely correct, but it doesn't mean what you probably think it means.

If the bailiffs have a legal levy and walking possession order against some goods in a property, securing those against a debt, then they don't need "help" from the police in the legal sense. They can use a locksmith to enter the house to retrieve what are effectively "their" goods at this point.

If the police are in attendance (which they almost certainly would be for something like this) it would be to act as observers, and to prevent any breach of the peace, not to facilitate the entry. The bailiffs already know how to gain entry to a property and don't need help from the police. Believe me, I did it more than a few times when I used to work as a bailiff.

RobertoMoir

worried_about_bailiffs wrote: »

Girlfriend let bailiffs in and signed one of those things were you agree to pay or they seize your goods, as she wanted to pay her debt for an old council tax bill she overlooked.

Yesterday I received a 'Removal Notice' which says they're going to come and remove my goods tomorrow (22/6/12) for a different council tax debt that I don't believe I owe.

It's the same bailiff. Can they now force entry?
What should I do to find out about the debt as there is no information about it on the letter?

Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks

As I recall, a walking possession order is only connected to the levy that it was signed against.

So in direct answer to your question: "No".

That doesn't mean that they won't turn up and try a lot of bluff, bluster and B.S. that will take a lot of effort to resolve though. The bailiffs that collect council tax aren't used to people understanding their rights (and indeed many of them don't have a proper understanding of the relevant laws, rules, and procedures themselves) so they may tell you all kinds of things about the 'powers' they now have based on the other liability order.

You really need to impress on your GF that one does not willingly allow bailiffs into the house in future - some people are intimidated by authority figures though, so (while I appreciate you know her better than a stranger from the interwebs) this may be a case of giving her the confidence and support she needs to tell them to sod off, rather than being upset with her because she didn't already do it. In general terms, you may find my guide to bailiff 'powers' on an old forum thread to be helpful.