Sacked whilst pregnant - thoughts?

amyloofoo

Hi all,

Just had a phone call from one of my sisters who's very upset. She works with a young disabled girl as a personal carer and was employed directly by the girl's parents using money they get from the child's personal budget as set out by her Social Services assessment. She absolutely loves her job and has been very good at it, although she's recently been informed that since the girl will be going to specialist boarding school in September, the parents wanted to talk to her about her hours.

She informed them a couple of weeks ago that she's pregnant. She's around 15 weeks now and had to tell them early on as the young girl likes to kick and she felt it was potentially dangerous for herself and the baby.

She's had quite a bit of time off with morning sickness and has now been informed by the parents that they're terminating her employment. What are her rights in this situation? I can't help but feel that the parent have done this to save themselves the bother of sorting out changing her hours once their daughter goes to school and the expenses of maternity leave, etc.

I'm a bit torn because I can completely understand that the girl's parents want the best for their daughter and that's someone who can be consistent with their hours and understanding about her kicking and behavioural issues. However I know my sister has been a wonderful worker, has cared for his young girl and that her current absences are due to pregnancy, which she shouldn't be penalised for. It's a bad situation all round

Caroline_a

How long has she worked for them?

Also surely they won't need a carer when the girl goes to boarding school?

Tiddlywinks

I vaguely remember a scenario like this being discussed on the Employment board maybe a year ago?

I'd go over there and ask as there are some pretty knowledgeable people who specialise in employment matters.

Edited to add: Is she directly employed by the parents or via an agency. Also, the reality is that the working environment has risks (the girl kicks) - does she want to stay and risk a kick in the stomach? Does the role involve other strenuous activity?

If directly employed, realistically the parents won't be able to offer another role or reasonable adjustments (unlike a larger employer who could re-deploy her) - what did your sister think would happen with her job when she got pregnant?

amyloofoo

Caroline_a wrote: »

How long has she worked for them?

Also surely they won't need a carer when the girl goes to boarding school?

She's worked for them for about a year and is contracted to work around 30 hours per week. The boarding school the child's going too would just be week boarding - she'd be home at the weekend and presumably would need a carer, but nowhere near the 30 hour mark.

Caroline_a

If she's worked for them under 12 months they can just finish her with no reason, but if it's over a year they need to go through a proper disciplinary process. Citizens Advice or ACAS is a good start.

Tiddlywinks

Caroline_a wrote: »

If she's worked for them under 12 months they can just finish her with no reason, but if it's over a year they need to go through a proper disciplinary process. Citizens Advice or ACAS is a good start.

Yep - here's the details:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/redundancyandleavingyourjob/dismissal/dg_10026619

"In most cases before you make an unfair dismissal claim you need a qualifying period.
The qualifying period changed on 6 April 2012:

• for employees starting new employment on or after 6 April 2012 the qualifying period for the right to claim unfair dismissal is two years - the right to request a written reason for dismissal is two years
• for employees in employment before 6 April 2012 the qualifying period is unchanged at one year - the right to request a written reason for dismissal is unchanged at one year"

amyloofoo

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

I vaguely remember a scenario like this being discussed on the Employment board maybe a year ago?

I'd go over there and ask as there are some pretty knowledgeable people who specialise in employment matters.

Edited to add: Is she directly employed by the parents or via an agency. Also, the reality is that the working environment has risks (the girl kicks) - does she want to stay and risk a kick in the stomach? Does the role involve other strenuous activity?

If directly employed, realistically the parents won't be able to offer another role or reasonable adjustments (unlike a larger employer who could re-deploy her) - what did your sister think would happen with her job when she got pregnant?

She always knew there would have to be major changes when / if she got pregnant but I don't think she thought she'd be summarily dismissed. They'd talked about doing a risk assessment for the child's kicking and other than those risks there weren't too many others as the child is mobile and doesn't require lifting, etc. In short, I'm sure she thought that she and the parents could reach a compromise until she went on maternity leave and then she could return to work fit and healthy. Now she's very worried about how this will affect her maternity pay entitlement, etc.

As I said before, I'm a bit torn because I can completely see the POV of the parents and I'm sure they just want what's best for their little girl; however I'm not sure that what they've done to my sister is right legally or ethically and can understand why she's now feeling disappointed and upset with the situation. I've advised her to speak to CAB and the job centre so hopefully they will be able to advise her what to do. I'm sure she can't take the parents to a tribunal due to the length of time she's worked for them; but I'm not sure she'd want to anyway, they're good, hardworking people who're just trying to do what's best for their disabled daughter.

amyloofoo

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Yep - here's the details:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/redundancyandleavingyourjob/dismissal/dg_10026619

"In most cases before you make an unfair dismissal claim you need a qualifying period.

The qualifying period changed on 6 April 2012:

• for employees starting new employment on or after 6 April 2012 the qualifying period for the right to claim unfair dismissal is two years - the right to request a written reason for dismissal is two years
• for employees in employment before 6 April 2012 the qualifying period is unchanged at one year - the right to request a written reason for dismissal is unchanged at one year"

Having read this it looks as though she may be entitled to claim unfair dismissal and is certainly able to request a written reason for dismissal. I'm sure the CAB will be able to advise her what to do for the best.

jetplane

Caroline_a wrote: »

If she's worked for them under 12 months they can just finish her with no reason, but if it's over a year they need to go through a proper disciplinary process. Citizens Advice or ACAS is a good start.

Not when she is pregnant this is a minefield for employers. I would suggest your sister contacts http://www.maternityaction.org.uk/

It sounds like she is employed by the parents through the direct payments scheme and therefore they are her employers
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/HealthAndSupport/ArrangingHealthAndSocialCare/DG_10034395

kingfisherblue

Councils have departments that deal with Direct Payments. They can offer advice to those who receive them (employers) and those who are paid using them (employees).

Nicki

There is no qualifying period when the dismissal is by reason of pregnancy, so you don't need to worry about that.

That being said, as the parent of a disabled child who employs a part time carer, I have huge amounts of sympathy for the parents if your sister had indeed had "quite a bit of time off" over the last 3 months. If she doesn't turn up to work, then the parents effectively have to work 24 hours a day between them, maybe even sleeping in shifts, for days or weeks on end. That isn't sustainable long term and it is why parents like me employ carers for some personal respite and a chance to recharge batteries. It is very hard to get a substitute carer at short notice for an unknown length of time, and most parents wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a vulnerable child with a total stranger, even while they were in the house just catching up on sleep.

I have been lucky in that although my carer has had two maternity leaves while employed by us, she hasn't taken time off during either pregnancy unti her leave started. Had she taken a lot of time off while pregnant, I would though have been sorely tempted to do what these parents have done. And I have instituted disciplinary processes against other non pregnant carers for excessive time off as it can't be accomodated in this kind of role.

Morally then, I think the best solution would be for the parents to give your sister a lump sum payment (maybe a month's salary) and for your sister to leave if she isn't going to be able to commit to good attendance during her pregnancy. Legally though, she will have rights to take them to a tribunal, but I wouldn't expect the damages she will be awarded to be huge.