Building / contents damage to rented property - not liveable

whitelabel

Hi I did post int he CAB section but been advised to post here, so apologies for double posting.
Can any one advise on the rights of the tenants in the following situation please (that has just happened!), a little bit complex but ill try and give full details now so you have the full picture

The issue involves 3 flats - ground, middle and top
all private rented from landlord who owns all three
ground floor tenant has been there 3 years
middle tenant 2 years
top tenant 3 months
ground and middle were on an initial 12 month shorthold lease which is now on a rolling periodic contract, all on an unfurnished basis


Leak has occured from the washing machine drainage pipe of top floor flat.
this runs under their floor and in the void above the ceiling of middle flat.
Plumber (landlord not indpendant) said shouldnt have been a plastic pushfit connection but a solvent weld ?
It has caused the collapse of the ceiling in middle floor lounge and water damage to drain down in to the bottom flat.
the water ceiling has damaged tv, playstation 3. stereo, amp, speakers, furniture, photos, ornaments and etc possible damage to leather sofas and some clothes that were on them


tenants in middle and bottom have no contents insurance
top floor does
landlord has buildings only cover


who is responsible legally for replacing damage contents of middle flat ?

what rights do they have to be reaccomodated / compensated for loss of usage during repairs ?
the landlord has requested that the rooms be cleared of items over the next day (who pays for storage >? )

landlord has said they can stay their still as the water is now isolated having been checked by a plumber and the cause identified, the plumber is returning tomorrow to carry out a full repair
should the landlord have to provide hotel /alternative accommodation until full repairs have been carried out?
damage to the ceiling is shown below
There is electricity to the rest of the flats except the damaged area
The fire alarm for the building has been isolated and disabled as the water in the system was causing constant alarms (there are 11 flats in total in the building). This is conversion from a very large victorian house which has had some extensions built on to it, there is no block insurance or maintenance fee.

ETA
landlord entered middle property approx 6 pm after reports of leak to ground floor flat, saw a small amount leaking through light and spoke to top floor tenant . was suggested the washing machine was at fault and to allow it to cycle out as it was nearly finished and that should stop the leak and would check in morning. landlord then went home
middle tenant was not in at this time, and landlord said tried calling, but apparently a different number.
middle tenant returned at 10pm to be notified by other tenants of the issues (also triggering the building main fire alarm). tenant went to property to find the ceiling had now fallen down. landlord called out again and arranged plumber to come on site.

Had action been taken earlier, damage to middle floor would have been minimised.


middle tennant has decided not to stay there tonight due to the smell of damp plaster and the fallen dust affecting asthma etc


Update today:

ok in the light of day, some items have been salvaged and although scratched etc are apparently still working.
the room contents are having to be moved out which is filling the bedroom and kitchen making no room at all. so aside from a damaged speaker, clock, the rest should clean up / dry out
this is the room today... its more than "a bit of work"
carpets, wall paper, ceiling all need replacing, carpets in hall need cleaning/ replacing
with other rooms /kitchen bedroom full with items from lounge, there is no room in them

Quentin

The middle and lower flat tenants will need to prove negligence by a third party, otherwise they have to stump up themselves.

whitelabel

plumber stating incorrect fitting used by installers count as negligence ? ( a company who went in to liquidation 3 years ago)

GDB2222

The plumber is absolutely right. Any hidden pipe work like that should be done with solvent weld. The building was defective, and that is the responsibility of the owner. Fortunately, he has buildings insurance, which almost certainly will have public liability cover included. There will be a wrangle about this, but I think the damage to the belongings of the people in the 2 lower flats is probably covered by this. If the tenants have to move out, that should also be covered.

However, as I said, there is likely to be a wrangle about it. Pipes do leak from time to time, and the courts generally accept that that is just something that happens – an accident. You would need expert evidence from a professional plumber to show that the installation was defective. (As the ceiling is down, take lots of photographs of the present pipework.) If the court thinks it is an accident, you might not be able to claim anything.

As it is uncertain, I suggest making the best of everything, rather than risking moving out into expensive accommodation. Ask the landlord to hire dehumidifiers, and move all your stuff out of the living room, so that he can get the ceiling replaced. Do all you have to do as cheaply as possible, just in case you end up paying for it.

whitelabel

this is the pipe having been repaired... looks exactly the same to me
it was too dark last night to take anything and the plumber had been this morning before i got there

GDB2222

I would ask on the uk.d-i-y newsgroup whether that is solvent weld. The solvent weld stuff I have used in the past looks different, but that may be okay.

molerat

Certainly looks like push fit to me, solvent weld does not have big end bosses like that.

whitelabel

update:

the plumber just came to check things out earlier so that was still the original fitting...
This is the new one... any good ?


The middle tenant has arranged to stay at their parents till repairs are completed and the landlord has said they will be "compensated for each day theyre not there" but didnt say what that compensation would be
let alone the time spent clearing out all the furniture etc in to other rooms and they back again after wards

A carpet cleaner was arranged by the landlord to suck up water from the groundfloor tenants carpets and they will be cleaned, middle floor carpets to be replaced.

GDB2222

The pictures are still out of focus, but it looks like push fit to me. I would query that with the landlord or the plumber.

The offer of compensation probably just means a rebate of the rent for the period, which is not unreasonable.

I would insist on a dehumidifier, especially if you have asthma.

The ceiling is just the very old-fashioned lath and plaster. It would not meet modern standards for fire safety or soundproofing.

whitelabel

the tenant has moved out until full repairs carried out
builder is apparently going in tomorrow to start the clear up replaster of ceiling.

Im guessing a replacement false ceiling is just going up and not adjustments made to the original victorian ceiling...