top spec Tiny Power P4 3.4 pc for £699

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CashSaver wrote:

This is a classic case of "You get what you pay for"

Or in the case of Tiny not even that.

calibrax

It really annoys me when I read threads like this, where people say to avoid certain PC companies for one reason or another.

This happens a lot with Dell, Tiny and Packard Bell... but it's not because they are any less reliable than any other PC company - let's face it, they are all pretty much the same. The reason they get more stick is that they are the biggest companies, who have been in business for years, and sell millions of PCs every year. So naturally as they make more PCs than anyone, they will have more unhappy customers.

PCs are complicated. Problems can be caused by a million different things, many of which are software related. No matter where you buy from, you can have problems, and most helplines are unhelpful, purely because you can't get qualified computer troubleshooters to work for the salary levels offered for a 1st line support position. This is the same reason you don't get really knowledgeable people in PC World - why would they work for a relatively low salary when they can get much more in a corporate position without having to deal with inexperienced home PC users?

So the solution? look at what you need in a PC, and buy the cheapest you can find. If it doesn't work out of the box, you are entitled to return it within 14 days under the law - so if you don't get any joy out of customer services in a week, simply return it for a refund. Forget about an extended warranty, because in a year you'll probably want to upgrade, and these days its usually cheaper to simply buy a new PC and sell the old one.

And this Tiny looks like a pretty good deal for the price.

Steve

kmhtkmhtkmht

The Dell 177 Misprice is STILL the mack - getting it on Monday - Can't decide whether I wanna Ebay it or what.

kmhtkmhtkmht

Or even just strip the components and sell it. I know I can get at least 90 quid and charge a generous delivery for the processor.

Ring0

calibrax wrote:

It really annoys me when I read threads like this, where people say to avoid certain PC companies for one reason or another.

This happens a lot with Dell, Tiny and Packard Bell... but it's not because they are any less reliable than any other PC company - let's face it, they are all pretty much the same. The reason they get more stick is that they are the biggest companies, who have been in business for years, and sell millions of PCs every year. So naturally as they make more PCs than anyone, they will have more unhappy customers.

PCs are complicated. Problems can be caused by a million different things, many of which are software related. No matter where you buy from, you can have problems, and most helplines are unhelpful, purely because you can't get qualified computer troubleshooters to work for the salary levels offered for a 1st line support position. This is the same reason you don't get really knowledgeable people in PC World - why would they work for a relatively low salary when they can get much more in a corporate position without having to deal with inexperienced home PC users?

So the solution? look at what you need in a PC, and buy the cheapest you can find. If it doesn't work out of the box, you are entitled to return it within 14 days under the law - so if you don't get any joy out of customer services in a week, simply return it for a refund. Forget about an extended warranty, because in a year you'll probably want to upgrade, and these days its usually cheaper to simply buy a new PC and sell the old one.

And this Tiny looks like a pretty good deal for the price.

Steve

I totally disagree with your comments regarding Tiny PC's. The main criticism of Tiny is the hardware and not the support, although I believe that too leaves a lot to be desired. As an owner of a PC Company and a software author I have on numerous occasions been handed PC's which friends and family have purchased and asked to help them fix the problems. As mentioned earlier the components are the worst that the industry produces, and compared to what's been on offer from Aldi, Lidl, Dell or Mesh, they should be avoided like the plague. This is not only my opinion, it is the opinion of the majority, supported by regular reviews in magazines such as What PC and PC Advisor. Why they continue to review Tiny is beyond me, as it's always the same verdict. Perhaps in hope, rather than expectation, they are awaiting for the day that Tiny produces a PC to be proud of.

Tiny, and Time for that matter, do not target the man in the street who knows his way around the inside of a PC case and can diagnose simple faults. Instead, they target families looking for the first PC for their kids with very limited knowledge, if any, on how to do the basics. This is coupled with attractive offers such as "buy now pay next year" etc. Before they know it, they have bought a piece of junk that has the life expectancy of a year or two, which is two or three years earlier than when the payments are finished.

Money Saving Expert tries to dispel the myth that buying cheap doesn't necessarily mean buying twice. However, with companies such as Tiny and comments such as yours, there is obviously still a lot of work to be done.

I recommend if anyone is still interested in purchasing a Tiny or Time PC, do research and search for PC forums that have regular posts on this subject. For example:

http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13403

calibrax

I recently upgraded the memory on a friend's Tiny PC, and it had a Western Digital hard drive, Samsung memory and an MSI motherboard. I believe the PSU was generic, but then that's the case in most PCs wherever you get them from. Now, as these are the core items in any PC along with the processor (Intel) and the graphics card (Nvidia), your assertion that the hardware used is "the worst that the industry produces" loses credibility.

You mention their sales methods and finance agreements - these are totally irrelevant, as just about every major high street company will try and tie you into finance deals which look attractive until you read the small print (i.e. buy now pay next year, then it's suddenly 34% APR). It's not exactly a Tiny exclusive.

Threads like the one you mention just serves to illustrate the absolute snobbery in the PC/gaming community about companies like Tiny. You will find many similar threads across the web slagging off Dell for exactly the same things. I am a gamer, and I have a home-built PC and a Dell PC - many of my fellow gamers will try to wind me up for owning a Dell. But it does what I want it to.

These companies simply use bulk buying power to make PCs which they sell at a price which is often cheaper than it would be to build your own PC.

Incidentally, the company I work for has 80,000 employees worldwide, and the company uses Dell computers. I find them to be very reliable.

Steve

khizman

calibrax wrote:

I recently upgraded the memory on a friend's Tiny PC, and it had a Western Digital hard drive, Samsung memory and an MSI motherboard. I believe the PSU was generic, but then that's the case in most PCs wherever you get them from. Now, as these are the core items in any PC along with the processor (Intel) and the graphics card (Nvidia), your assertion that the hardware used is "the worst that the industry produces" loses credibility.

You mention their sales methods and finance agreements - these are totally irrelevant, as just about every major high street company will try and tie you into finance deals which look attractive until you read the small print (i.e. buy now pay next year, then it's suddenly 34% APR). It's not exactly a Tiny exclusive.

Threads like the one you mention just serves to illustrate the absolute snobbery in the PC/gaming community about companies like Tiny. You will find many similar threads across the web slagging off Dell for exactly the same things. I am a gamer, and I have a home-built PC and a Dell PC - many of my fellow gamers will try to wind me up for owning a Dell. But it does what I want it to.

These companies simply use bulk buying power to make PCs which they sell at a price which is often cheaper than it would be to build your own PC.

Incidentally, the company I work for has 80,000 employees worldwide, and the company uses Dell computers. I find them to be very reliable.

Steve

that one may have been like that - but what will be in the one they are selling now? you just dont know. its alot better to build youself as you know EXACTLY what your getting. Tiny specs seem vague, i have read their ads in the paper and they dont give detailed specs tbh. i doubt if you went to the shop and asked they will give you that sort of info.

Jonni2bad

Despite reading a few negative remarks surrounding Tiny (and reading a few other good ones elsewhere) I opted for this pc in December of last year, although it was called something else back then..

I did a lengthy search on the net, and went to several local pc shops, some of the larger 'chains' but also some independent ones too, and could not get a similar spec PC and 17" TFT for anything like the price offered by Tiny.

The PC has worked perfectly well from day one. It's only 4 months old now so I can't honestly comment on any long term use yet.

I had a reason to phone the customer services though - part of the software package had not been sent. I found them to be very helpful, they explained that part of that package had been withdrawn, but agreed to send an alternative which I thought was better, and it arrived 2 days later.

I also read the Which? report on PCs and suppliers, and one comment did perhaps at least begin to explain (some of) the bad name surrounding Tiny and the like... this is also noted in a comment listed above - that the majority of their customers have very limited PC knowledge, so when some relatively minor problem occurs, it might appear to be worse to an inexperienced user, and may be something that others could easily rectify themselves.

I chose to buy from "the Computer Shop" rather than online, but only because I thought I could barter for a better deal. I walked in with a cheque made out to PC World and said I was on my way to buy a similar deal, could they stop me? I got an upgrade on speakers, keyboard and mouse, and got the original discs (I think they call it T-clone or something). I was quite happy to rip up my PC World cheque that was never really going to be used...

All in all, a very happy Tiny customer.

calibrax

khizman wrote:

that one may have been like that - but what will be in the one they are selling now? you just dont know. its alot better to build youself as you know EXACTLY what your getting. Tiny specs seem vague, i have read their ads in the paper and they dont give detailed specs tbh. i doubt if you went to the shop and asked they will give you that sort of info.

On their website it does give more info than the adverts, although it isn't always specific - presumably they constantly review their suppliers to get the best value components, and so the manufacturers probably vary (one month Western Digital, the next month Maxtor, etc.)

And you're right, it is better to build it yourself. But as you said, most of these PCs are bought by people who are new to computing. They usually don't have that option.

I consider myself to be someone who can find good value quality components on the web and can build a PC for very little money... but I'm pretty sure I couldn't build a PC to those specifications for that price. It's fantastic value for money. Their profit margins must be like their name, tiny!

Steve

toonarmy_3

Ring0, i'm with you on this one. Over the years i've had to undo many horror stories produced by Tiny (and Time for that matter) for family members and friends that were 'dazzled' by the 'amazing' offers from these companies. They bundle their PC's with crap extras such as digital cameras, printers, scanners and software. This appeals to unsuspecting buyers looking for a cheap deal, they exploit a lack of knowledge in some buyers and use this to their advantage. The bundled items they supply are normally very poor quality like a Jenoptik digial camera (Who?), Lexmark printers that will cost an arm and a leg to keep filled with ink, cheap scanners prone to breaking down.

With regards to their PC's - over the last year i've had to sort out numerous problems with machines. These range from a PC supplied with no anti-virus or anti-spyware supplied that after a days internet use was so virus and spyware ridden that it had to be re-formated, supplying a PC with no anti-virus is like supplying a car with no brakes. I had another one that I was given to fix that was supposedly brand new but when I began looking at the hard-drive I found files (photos, word documents, cookies) from a previous owner, this was obvisoulsy a recycled machine sold as a new one!!!!

I accept they may produce the odd good machine but they haven't gained their reputation for being the worst manufacturer in the industry for no reason. They produce shoddy machines, built to breakdown after a couple of years, often sold with no decent anti-virus, sold with little or advice given to novice computer users who don't know any better.