FOS and the 6 month rule.

Blinkin73

Hello everyone,

Please could you help and give some advice on my options.

I've been paying for Halifax total mortgage protection for the past 10 years. This consists of three different elements - life, criticl illness and mortgage repyment cover. I pay one monthly premium.

I became aware in 2009 that the policy was missold to me for a variety of reason
1. I work for a local authority and as such recieve 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay if I am ill in addition to death benefits should I be misfortunate enough to die early.
2. As a child protection social worker whose skills have always been in short supply I am never going to be made redundant
3. I was told at the time that it would be beneficial to my mortgage application should I take out such a policy.

I wrote to the Halifax in October 2009 to complain and recieved a final response in November 2009 along with a FOS leaflet and I had every intention of contacting them. However I had an essay to write for my professional development which I had to hand in in January 2010 and anticipated complaining to FOS after I had completed this. Unfortunately the weekend after I completed my essay My mother had a massive stroke and was in hospital for over 3 months. I spent most nights after work at the hospital in addition to weekends due to my mother being so distressed and demanding. When she was discharged I spent most evenings caring for her. Unble to cope with these demands in addition to working 12 hours a day I was signed off sick from work for two months. I missed the 6 month time limit.

Recently I wrote to Halifax (March 2012) with additional reasons as to why I did not believe that the policy was sold in my best interests
1. I have no dependents who might derive any benfit from the policy and never have had
2. I am also entitled through work to significant benefits should I become disabled.

Despite my following up the complaint with a phone call I did not recieve a response within the timescales and after a further telphone call I eventully received a reply dated 13th June stating that the policy had already been investigated, a decision issued and they would not be reopening the file.

Can they do that given that I have given them additional information and reasons why I do not believe policy was sold in my best interests?

Will FOS look into that?

Are there any alternatives for seeking redress?

In case you are wondering why its taken so long for me to complain again - I was working cripplingly long hours, I had to help care for my mother,I became very depressed, I also had to deal with a property dispute with a neighbour which involved legal wranglings and me having to undertake extensive research after my solicitor cocked up and did not complete the forms necessary for me claim legal fees etc on my home insurance. I have now completed all the research needed and have a different job that doesn't entail so many hours so I have some time to explore this further.

Thanks in advance for any replies

G

dunstonh

1. I work for a local authority and as such recieve 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay if I am ill in addition to death benefits should I be misfortunate enough to die early.

Whilst the death benefits on an employer dont need to be taken into account (they serve a different purpose), on advised cases, the sick pay normally would. Although recently, complaints using the 6 month full/6 months half pay excuse havent necessarily been upheld. Possibly as it is now realised that many PPI plans (particulary old ASU plans) would still pay out in that case.

2. As a child protection social worker whose skills have always been in short supply I am never going to be made redundant

Not a valid reason. Whilst you may consider yourself low risk of it happening, there is no such thing as never.

3. I was told at the time that it would be beneficial to my mortgage application should I take out such a policy.

You cant prove it and they will have nothing to support your allegation. So, you can disregard that reason. Its he said/she said and complaints are not upheld on that basis.

1. I have no dependents who might derive any benfit from the policy and never have had

That is a valid reason for life assurance complaints if you are single, no dependants and living alone. (does not work if you live with a partner or someone else)

2. I am also entitled through work to significant benefits should I become disabled.

Doesnt really overlap with CI or PPI.

Can they do that given that I have given them additional information and reasons why I do not believe policy was sold in my best interests?

Yes they can. You get one bite of the cherry unless significant new information comes to light that was not available at the earlier complaint. Significant means significant. It doesnt mean a change of tack.

Will FOS look into that?

The FOS take the 6 month rule very seriously. They will overrule it in cases where you can show you were incapacitated for the whole of the delayed period (not just the 6 months you missed but from that time until now). Considering it only takes about 15 minutes to prepare a case to the FOS (if that) but lets say 30 minutes to be sure, does your reasons for missing the 6 month timescale prevent 30 minutes work from being done. Writing an Essay is a very weak reason. You had two months to do that and there is no way that would take two months of your life. Your mother having a stroke is a strong reason and if you were the registered carer for her or your father is deceased or not around then that would be the sort of reason they would accept for a delay.

However, your biggest issue is that you are not looking at just 6 months. You are looking at 31 months. That is going to be a very big stretch to justify that period.

I was working cripplingly long hours

Like what? You need to specify if you want the FOS to overrule it.

I had to help care for my mother

every day for nearly 3 years? Were you the registered carer?

I became very depressed

And your GP can confirm this for the 3 year period?

I also had to deal with a property dispute with a neighbour which involved legal wranglings and me having to undertake extensive research after my solicitor cocked up and did not complete the forms necessary for me claim legal fees etc on my home insurance.

So you were quite capable of dealing with other issues and especially one that involved far more work than a quick referral to the FOS.

For your own benefit, I have removed any emotion in my response and kept it blunt and to the point. I have looked at it as a third party dealing with complaints would look at it. You need to remove emotion a bit as well. You need to be factual. Working long hours? so what, we all do. Depressed? medically depressed or just feeling down?

Only a minority of cases get the timebar overruled. So, I haven't sugar-coated it so you can see exactly what the issues are.

Blinkin73

Hi Dunstonh,

I appreciate your reply and having read some of your replies and seen how blunt you can be, I appreciate you not tearing my post to bits!

I have tried to keep as much of the emotion out of it as I can. There are lots of things that I havent mentioned for this very reason

Yes I was medically diagnosed as being depressed by the a doctor in the local authorities occupational health department. No I didnt see my doctor about it as I didnt feel I needed medication. I saw it as a natural reaction to my situation as that time. im piretty sure if I were to go to the doctor now I would still be diagnosed as being depressed but the future is looking better and I can see light at the end of the tunnel now.

I realise that most people have to work hard these days but do they work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for months and months on end? Do they recieve a court orders at 5pm requiring them to submit a court report the following day at 12.00am. A report that takes about 9 hours to do and then a few more hours for mangers to read through and request you make alterations. Do they have to work such long hours that its difficult to find the time to shop for food, to shower and clean the house? I cant evidence all my hours worked as Local Authority social workers dont get paid for overtime.

I am not my mothers full time carer. I dont have a spare 35 hours to give her. She has carers 3 x a day 7 days a week. However she does need me to pop round to bring her the odd bit of shopping that she forgot to order and for a bit of company sometimes.

I didnt really have a choice in havng to respond to my neighbour dispute. If you had a burly man intimidaing you and coming into your property to shout and threaten you you would want something done about it. Especially if you thought your solicitor was dealing with it and he wasnt and you faced losing 30-40 grand in a legal dispute. I cant say it helped my mood at all

Given my role as a social worker and that there has been a shortage of such workers since forever I can confidently state that I am 99% sure that I will never be made redundant and that should hell freeze over and I am made redundant there is plenty of work around and I will never be unemployed. The number of children being taken into care has done nothing but rise since I qualified 14 years ago. I could work anywhere in the country and quite a few countries abroad if I wanted such is the demand/shortage at present

No I dont have a partner living with me and havent had since before the inception of the policy. As I dont have children either, the death benefits policy is definitely of no benfit to me at all.

What is ASU?


I cant claim that not a single day has passed in the last 30 months where I could, if I had recalled the 6 month rule, written a letter to FOS. I can say that after Jan 2009 I was shot to bits for a while and couldnt even write the correct dates and times in a diary for some time and would forget stuff all over the shop. The 6 month time limit escaped me after my mother became ill. Im sure that now its become fashionable to try and reclaim ppi and that some people do it for spurious reasons, you've heard it all before from people. But I genuinely believe my policy was missold to me.

I can appreciate that FOS will not look favourably on my reasons for not contacting them for over 30 months and I doubt very much that they will consider my case an exemption.

Thats why I am wondering if the fact that I have raised new concerns about my policy (not having dependents and having disability benefits if I should be incapacitated for over 12) is a viable way of getting halifax to reconsider my case. Is this significant new information?They did not address the new concerns that I raised. They did not say it was a final decision but said to contact them if I wanted to discuss it further.

Is their any any milage or a precedent for new information being used to reopen a case? Can I complain to FOS about them not reconsidering the case in light of new information. If FOS wont look at it are court proceedings viable.


Regards

G

roonaldo

im afraid you missed the boat for referring your complaint to FOS

magpiecottage

I too think you have missed the boat about a FOS complaint. The only way I can see that they MIGHT consider it is if you first made a complaint against your employer for breach of the Working Time Directive by forcing you to work more than 48 hours per week.

If you did that and won, as well as putting in a complaint to FOS and citing the complaint to your employer as evidence you MIGHT persuade it.

If have to say, though, that DunstonH is right - your arguments do not seem very persuasive.

Blinkin73

Thanks for the reply Roonaldo,

Are you saying that raising the fact that I have no dependents is not significant new information? What sort of things constitute significant new information?

If I have missed my opportunity to refer to FOS are there alternative legal ways of reclaiming my monies though?

If I have definitely missed all opportunites to get my money back then I will have to let it go, but until I am sure there is no harm in enquiring.

I'm not trying to change tack..It wasnt until I read this forum in Feburary that I realised that having no dependents had bearing on my case. It was not until I wrote to Halifax about this and received their reply this week, which referred to the 6 month rule, that I remembered anything about that. Im not trying to make excuses just saying it how it is. I realise it may be too late to do anything about it and that my reasons may not be accepted.

G.

[Deleted User]

Blinkin73 wrote: »

Is their any any milage or a precedent for new information being used to reopen a case? Can I complain to FOS about them not reconsidering the case in light of new information. If FOS wont look at it are court proceedings viable.

You would be wasting your time exploring any of these avenues.
The Bank issued their final response three years ago, you ran out of time with FOS six months after that and you haven't presented a persuasive enough case to even think about a likely very expensive (for you) court case.
You only get one bite of the cherry...

McKneff

You seem like an intelligent person,

I just have one question.

Why did you buy it if you did not need it?

Blinkin73

Thanks for the reply Magpie cottage.

I read the FOS pages on the 6 month rule this morning and took note of the examples that they gave in respect of exemptions. I can pretty much guarentee my reasons will not be accepted.

Taking my employer to court is not really an option. I still work for them but I am in a different department. I cant prove the hours I worked as we dont log in or out of work. If I was successful in such a claim thousands of social workers would follow suit which would have a huge impact on the finances of all Local Authorities who are already really struggling. For this reason I believe any judge or tribunal would try to dismiss my case.

Even if I did win that case, FOS could reasonably argue that I do have a number of weeks holiday each year and could have written to them then.

However as you can see I did/do have good reasons for complaining about my PPI being missold despite Halifax's denial. And you will just have to accept my word that truly did get caught up in other life events.

Again I have to ask what constitutes significant new information?

[Deleted User]

Blinkin73 wrote: »

I did/do have good reasons for complaining about my PPI being missold despite Halifax's denial.

If you complained for the first time now with the complaint reasons you have given, I see nothing that would guarantee a success for you. It might go either way.

Blinkin73

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Yes I am quite a clever person. I've even got a law degree aswell as a Masters in social work!!! But you dont always know what you dont know, if that makes sense. I dont come from a very educated family who could advise me. This was the first house I had ever bought and I knew nothing of insurance policies and death benefits etc. The advisor did tell me it would be advantagous to my mortgage application ( and yes I cant prove it) and siad that the policy was award winning. In those days there were no sites like these where you can become more informed if you want to. I simply trusted her judgement. Just like I trusted the jugement of the employee of Lloyds bank who advised me to get PPI on a professional studies loan I took out when I was a full time student with no job and therefore that policy was also missold.
Over the years I have become very aware that bank advisors are really sales people first and foremost.

You also have to remember that I agreed to the policy in 2001 people didnt typically have computers and the internet with which to look things up and become more educated.

Oh well you live and learn...and trust less and less I guess.

Thanks though for all the replies. Its sites like this where people are willing to help with no agenda that give me back a little of the faith in people that I have lost over the years.

G