Poll - Lying to get a loan

Generali

scorpio_princess wrote: »

I agree with you though - one of the main reasons the poor countries stay poor is because it's not in the rich countries' interests to allow them to develop.

Again OT but I think it is in the interests of developed nations for developing countries to grow as it increases their potential market. Look at the Marshall Plan after WW2 for example.

AndrewSmith

Are you asking to borrow £1000 from me?! If so, just ask, don't be shy!

Funny but I dont borrow pocket change :rotfl:

hearts

acreed wrote: »

I'm interested to note the comments from several people that unless people lied on their mortgage applications "normal average" pepole couldn't afford to by a "normal average" house.

Presumably I can blaim those lying gits for making impossible for a "normal average honest" person like me to afford a " normal average" house.

If people hadn't found fraudulent ways to pay high prices for fairly unimpressive houses then there would have been no fuel for the price inflation fire and house price rises would have been lower and slower.

Surely that would have been better for most of us?

You are quite correct and if the question was "Should the banks have created a mortgage product that allowed the applicant to lie to get what they need" I would have answered NO! The point of my argument from the start has been if they didnt want you to do it they could very easily have made it near impossible. BUT wiith the need to continue to earn from this market they had to find a way to allow more and more people to join to keep the cash flowing.........and the Self Cert was born ;-)

AndrewSmith

hearts wrote: »

As long as they get their pound of flesh they will not actively pursue people who lie on forms. It wouldnt make sense to them.

Not true.

As said above I know personally of one client and adviser prosecuted by a lender for lying on a mortgage application who are now serving the remainder of their 10 year prison sentence. I know for a fact that they are not alone.

I have heard of countless stories during my time in Financial Services where the lenders have reported brokers or advisers (generally employed brokers or advisers) to their employers for exactly this sort of practice, and who have faced disciplinary proceedings as a result, I know some ex collegues to whom it has happened (one of which was caught by the Hunter system and at the time was one of the companies top 5 producers out of over 250 advisers).

Advisers have their own monitoring systems in place and compliance proceedures, along with the lenders regularly quality checking applications from both branch and intermediary channels.

In the UK today Intermediary lending business accounts for in excess of 65% of all mortgage business conducted. The lenders appreciate that it is very lucrative for them however they will not simply allow fraudulent applications to be agreed willy nilly. This would make them an accessory to fraud and, as such, liable to criminal prosecution. Again I have knowledge of a certain lender where some of it's underwriting staff were allowing inflated incomes to be declared on applications in return for a cut of the products cashbacks or commission. These individuals were sacked and subject to both a criminal prosecution and civil prosecution by their employers.

If you are happy to risk 10 years of your life eating from a tin plate drinking water then go for it. If you have any sense or morality and a modicum of common sense you will see that it is just a stupid and irrisponsible thing to try and do.

mountainofdebt

I would put money on anyone lying on an application about their income posting that their lender was irresponsible in lending that amount of money a few years down the line when things got abit tough.

AndrewSmith

Exactly.

I get so annoyed with all this talk of 'irresponsible lending'. What about 'irresponsible borrowing'?

After all, no one physically puts the money into your hand, you have to ask for it in the first place. If someone is bloody stupid enough to think they can 'borrow' more than they can afford and not worry about how to repay it then they deserve to get into difficulty.

CB1979_2

if you have to lie you can't afford, simple as that

Generali

CB1979 wrote: »

if you have to lie you can't afford, simple as that

Agreed!

There is an acronym in the States that I predict will be used to define some of the wilder ends of sub-prime lending in the UK as it has the US:

NINJA

No Income No Job no Assets

talksalot81

To obtain a money through lies and deceipt would be a textbook definition for fraud. There are a shocking number of people who have clearly not understood the dictionary meaning of 'fraud'!

BettiePage

Self cert mortgages, also known as 'lie to buy' mortgages.