£215 per month direct debit?!!

Terrylw1

jalexa wrote: »

Is that what you have previously called EAC?

Yes, that's the one. The supplier sends the last EAC they have off their Data Collector. The EAC is from industry software used to manage readings and forecasting of weather normalised data.

Supplier consumption isn't real to the industry since all scheduled payments tyo distributors comes from the data in the Data Collectors systems,

victor2

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Yes, that's the one. The supplier sends the last EAC they have off their Data Collector. The EAC is from industry software used to manage readings and forecasting of weather normalised data.

Supplier consumption isn't real to the industry since all scheduled payments tyo distributors comes from the data in the Data Collectors systems,

Sorry to divert this away from the original topic, but does what you've been saying mean that when you switch from one supplier to another, the history of your meter readings gets passed over? Makes even more of a mockery of EDF's persistent and meaningless DD recalculations!

robowl666

I did call them back and it turns out that the new monthy payment should have been £84 not £105 as they didn't take in to account the £143 that was my summer bill.Upon discussion with them I noticed that I was paying more than ever before. To cut a long story short back in July 2011 n power put me on their books without permission so to rectify this rather than just explaining and changing me back they sent 2 door salesmen round to the house to get me on side. They quoted me £24 month and I agreed £50. The paperwork stated I signed up at an event which was a lie. So now I am £50 out of pocket with a large bill. If I had stayed with BG they would have charged me since aug 2011 £522 and n power charged me £569. Don't get me wrong I know that things go up etc but I knew something was incorrect. Now they say they will fully refund me and swap me back and then BG will bill me and I should use this refund to pay them. I think they should refund me and then swap me and also pay off BG for the unconvince. To top all this off they sent my details (bank) to the wrong person (now I'm having hmrc letters telling me someone is trying to claim tax credit in my name) and because of the unknown swap I had to pay BG on payment plan causing them to mark a default (although I paid them) on my report.

jalexa

victor2 wrote: »

...does what you've been saying mean that when you switch from one supplier to another, the history of your meter readings gets passed over? Makes even more of a mockery of EDF's persistent and meaningless DD recalculations!

I'm sure Terrylw1 will be along later with the technical explanation but to keep the issue alive during the day I think I can confirm that subsequent to the "switch" and/or "initial agreement" of the fixed regular monthly payment the gaining supplier receives something called Estimated Annual Consumption (or EAC) which is the industry's processing of previous meter readings. I have yet to understand whether the EAC passed has been normalised for weather or not. That is an important issue because of the relative severity of previous winters. I would hope it has been normalised because it cannot be much use as an industry forward planning tool if it hasn't been. A good question for Terrylw1.

"Mockery" is a great word to use. The practice makes a "mockery" of the Consumer Focus Confidence Code because it permits a payment amount used for a "12 month" switching decision to be unilaterally varied by the supplier within months regardless of "actual reading" payment adequacy.

In relation to Edf, this industry EAC practice is the principal reason why the Edf calculation does not make sense to customers who understand their consumption and energy billing. With Edf, as continuing on another thread, there is the secondary issue that Edf is unwilling or unable to explain the projected consumption used for the calculation.

Cardew

jalexa wrote: »

I'm sure Terrylw1 will be along later with the technical explanation but to keep the issue alive during the day I think I can confirm that subsequent to the "switch" and "initial agreement" of the fixed regular monthly payment the gaining supplier receives something called Estimated Annual Consumption (or EAC) which is the industry's processing of previous meter readings. I have yet to understand whether the EAC passed has been normalised for weather or not. That is an important issue because of the relative severity of previous winters. I would hope it has been normalised because it cannot be much use as an industry forward planning tool if it hasn't been. A good question for Terrylw1.

).

Way back on MSE(2006?) there was considerable discussion on the algorithm used by the Utility Companies for estimating bills; indeed a poster claimed to worked on such an algorithm.

IIRC correctly there was Met Office input and the algorithm is independantly audited.

The Utility companies will have ample data to show that on average, say, consumption is x% higher in December than November.

jalexa

Cardew wrote: »

The Utility companies will have ample data to show that on average, say, consumption is x% higher in December than November.

Indeed they will and particularly the suppliers with a generation arm. My question however was whether or not the EAC passed was normalised for weather.

In the case of Edf, they are unable or unwilling to disclose the projected annual consumption used in first year calculations. Nor in my case was there any evidence that their "algorithm" captured that my actual consumption (normalised or not) was significantly lower than the figure they must have continued to use for the payment calculation (but couldn't or wouldn't disclose).

robowl666 who has recently posted in this thread believes that NPower's "algorithm" has not captured summer consumption at the interim review stage. From the data I cannot say that is definitely so but there is a suspicion that it hasn't.

Terrylw1

victor2 wrote: »

Sorry to divert this away from the original topic, but does what you've been saying mean that when you switch from one supplier to another, the history of your meter readings gets passed over? Makes even more of a mockery of EDF's persistent and meaningless DD recalculations!

Yes, it does. Its actually an industry process which is audited.

The new Data Collector (validates the reading data), an appointed agent, contacts the old Data Collector since suppliers contract who they want. The old Data Collector sends a data flow containing 2 data items, 1 a valid that would match the advance between 2 meter readings and a forecasted estimate of 12 months. The advance has the dates for use later, the estimate only has the date its estimated from.

The supplier then gets sent a copy of the forecasted estimate only and the switch date is the point the 12 months starts from. So, whilst the estimate may be X from the old one, by starting a calculation from the switch date, it can change as the estimate is "weather normalised".

Terrylw1

To answer points over "weather normalisation" by Jalexa & Cardew, none of this calculation is within supplier control. Its all done by appointed independent bodies.

You might find this brief explanation helpful for elec. I'm not sure without digging how similar this is however I do know that gas has always had more factors involved anyway e.g. height above sea level. I would have to do some digging on gas...

Elec brief explanation...

http://www.elexon.co.uk/reference/technical-operations/profiling/

In calculating Load Profiles, I've noticed it occurs every couple of years. I think the last time Elexon approaches suppliers was late 2010. However, suppliers are only approached to provide a sample of customers to be contacted and they take it from there.

There is a far more complicated document if you really want to look at linear regression, profiling, multiple regression, etc...its pretty complicated stuff though hence software is used.

What is important is how Daily Profile Coefficients are created. From what I understand its based on 3 concurrent days and weighted between them. It uses sunset times and temperature. Temperatures are collected for this.

These DPC's are then broadcast as a full refresh to the agents who them. I would have to check the schedule or this but if it changes, it would have to be broadcast or the software would be out of date.

Its also worth noting that its the new suppliers Data Collector who Deems your switch reading if you don't provide one. They also validate your switch reading if you do, which is why you give it to your new supplier. So, they need that previous Data Collectors history. If they cant get it, there is a published list of average values per meter setting. If your meter is changed from one setting to another (1 rate to E7, E7 to E7 with different switching times, some payment type changes, etc then your history gets wiped out in favour of these averages until they get more readings. So, do suppliers also do any of this?

victor2

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Yes, it does. Its actually an industry process which is audited.....

Thanks!
Clearly a complex process.
Still would like to think that suppliers use a customer's actual history to forecast usage. Maybe some do even if our friends at EDF don't...

jalexa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

To answer points over "weather normalisation" by Jalexa & Cardew, none of this calculation is within supplier control. Its all done by appointed independent bodies.

Well that's clear, thanks. Moving on....

From your link found a possibly useful document about EAC/AA. Help it's 73 pages. I may be gone some time:D.

http://www.elexon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/eac_aa_urs_v11.0.pdf

A few simple questions. If a customer submits Customer Own Reads to a supplier (hey, now I'm speaking the lingo:)), is it optional or mandatory for the supplier to validate the readings? Are validated CORs recorded by the industry system as if they were data collector readings? How often and in what circumstances does the supplier receive an updated EAC?