Can I return my car - consumer act?

ah75

I bought a second hand car from Ford in Feb 2011. It was one year old when I bought it and there were no pre-existing warranty claims. The previous owner had moved abroad.

Ever since May 2011 the keyfree system has failed to work on numerous occasions. This means you cannot gain access to the vehicle without the alarm sounding, and the car will not start when you press the button. For all intents and purposes - I don't have a key at this point. While driving sometimes the warning lights flash claiming the key is not present and the immobiliser is having an issue.

For a year the car has been in-and-out of the dealer having parts replaced, but the problem resurfaces within a few weeks every time.

They now claimed they've replaced all they can.

I've asked them to take the car back (3 times by letter, about 5 times verbally) and they've offered me a part-ex price.

So - under the consumer act, surely I can say that:
1) It was not fit for purpose - if I cannot access or drive the car
2) It's not of adequate quality - they can't even fix it!

Even though it was second hand (so my contract is with the dealer, not Ford), and the problem happened within 6 months of ownership, do I have a right to a fair and reasonable refund (excluding, perhaps wear and tear)?

I don't know who to ask - any ideas what my rights are, and who to ask? (clearly not the dealer!)

motorguy

ah75 wrote: »

Even though it was second hand (so my contract is with the dealer, not Ford), and the problem happened within 6 months of ownership, do I have a right to a fair and reasonable refund (excluding, perhaps wear and tear)?

Any potential refund scenario will be based not on the purchase price of the car but on the purchase price minus what could be deemed reasonable for the length of ownership.

I would ring Ford Customer service HQ and see what they say.

forgotmyname

They should base the price on your car with no decrease for that fault.

Youve had it over a year. Why didnt you reject it within the 6 months?

You say weeks but how many 52 weeks?

ah75

As I really liked the car (when it wasn't faulting) - and it's covered by a warranty - I foolishly believed it was fixable. I don't anymore. From what I read on MSE elsewhere, if the fault occurred within the first 6 months the consumer law still applies (can anyone confirm?). As you also have to be seen to give the seller ample opportunity to fix it.

The problem is it's intermittent - it can go a couple of weeks to a month before it recurs after each time they replace a part - they also take the car for a week or so to try to repeat the fault so then I have no car! So each time it comes back from the dealers you always think/hope it's fixed until one day after that you get stranded and it won't work for an hour or two, when you have to be somewhere urgently (it always breaks when you're in the biggest rush - no surprise).

wealdroam

ah75 wrote: »

From what I read on MSE elsewhere, if the fault occurred within the first 6 months the consumer law still applies (can anyone confirm).

I really don't think you read that on MSE.
Can you please point out exactly where.

You probably read that within six months of the sale a fault can be assumed to have been present at the point of sale.

You may've also read that if the problem is deemed to be inherent (present at the point of sale but not necessarily apparent), the the Sale of Goods Act affords you a remedy.
That remedy could be a repair, replacement or refund.
You can choose the remedy, but the seller can refuse that remedy if it is disproportunately costly.... so effectively the seller chooses the remedy.

If a refund is decided upon, then that refund can be reduced to take account the use you have had.
I have no idea how anyone would decide how much that reduction might be, but you have had the use of the car for a year or more (or less considering when it wasn't working).

You say "I bought a second hand car from Ford in Feb 2011", and then later say "my contract is with the dealer, not Ford".
It may be important to get this right.
Did you buy direct from Ford, or did you buy from a dealer who happens to sell Ford cars?

For more information on the Sale of Goods Act, have a read of MSE's Consumer Rights article.
Their How to Complain article is good too.

Did you use a credit card when making the purchase?
Or perhaps some other form of credit.
If so, you may be able to get the credit card company involved.
Read the Section 75 refunds article for further info.

Hintza

Sounds as is the car is still under warranty. As has been suggested contact Ford UK ( I am actually surprised they are not involved already)

ah75

I have involved Ford UK Customer Services already - this has an associated case number and they have been monitoring and trying to help.

IMHO - they seem quite impotent - they just chase people for you, they can't actually do anything. I asked for a complete history of the car pre-dating my ownership, and they said they couldn't - only time I actually asked for something. I actually need to send a letter to the CEO/MD I suspect.

I'm going to phone the people who provide the Legal Cover on my home insurance - they may be able to give me a take on what my rights are, perhaps.

ah75

Interesting comment from the guys on my Legal Cover - always put the deposit on your Credit Card if the dealer insists you lay down a deposit that day. If it's at their insistence they won't require a Credit Card fee. This then infers that the entire transaction, even the remaining figure that may be covered by a part-ex or debit/cash sale, is covered by the Credit Card company. This gives the individual a much better arguing position.

They're going to get one of their solicitors to call me to discuss how to 'reject the vehicle'. Sounds like this will be complex as I'm second-hand buyer, and didn't use Credit (so not covered by the Credit Act, only the Sales Of Goods Act).

AlexisV

Sounds like you're going down the rejection route.

What is the car? How much did you pay for it? How many miles have you done since you've had it?

You need to have a figure to base the rejection on. In all likelihood their figure will be less than the true figure we'll work out with you.

ah75

wealdroam wrote: »

I really don't think you read that on MSE.
Can you please point out exactly where.

You probably read that within six months of the sale a fault can be assumed to have been present at the point of sale.
...
For more information on the Sale of Goods Act, have a read of MSE's Consumer Rights article.
Their How to Complain article is good too.

Did you use a credit card when making the purchase?
Or perhaps some other form of credit.
If so, you may be able to get the credit card company involved.
Read the Section 75 refunds article for further info.

Hi Wealdroam,
You're probably right - that's probably the 6-month time period I'm referring to.
Interesting on the remedy/repair/refund. I've been trying the remedy/repair route for the past year - it's not been a pleasurable experience and I think I've afforded every opportunity for it to be fixed - I'm no longer willing to accept the remedy/repair route as it's gone on too long, and they're just swapping bits with no clue of the real fault. I have no confidence that they will be able to diagnose and fix this before the warranty runs out in a year's time.
It was purchased second hand from the Ford garage in Reading (when 1 year old) - a dealership - sorry was being lazy in that statement.
I paid the deposit of £250 via my credit card, then a lump just over £10k via debit, and part-ex'd my old car.
I'll have a good read of those articles - many thanks!
I've just talked to my credit card company and they will send me a dispute form to start the ball rolling - they will then discuss the case with me.

ah75

Just as an update - I talked to a solicitor (thanks to the Home Legal cover) and they said the following:

• As the fault occurred within 6 months of ownership, the burden of proof is with the dealer in a court. They must therefore prove that the car has no faults. As the same symptoms have persisted throughout the past year and I have a log of every occurrence - that'd be hard for them!
• Typically rejections of cars is difficult - in a court it is likely that you will not be able to reject as such, but will receive damages that comprises of a fair value of the car given problems and times in the dealership to fix, and subtracting a suitable value to cover my ownership/usage. That's fine - I've only done about 5k miles anyway.
• In a court the party that does not win will be liable for the majority of the court fees. As the value of my car is >£5k this is not a small claims court case - so the fees would likely be as much as my car's value. It is in their interest to settle without involving a court case.
• If the deposit was paid on credit card (it was) then the credit card company would be litigated against, as well as the dealer. They are jointly liable for the entire transaction, even though I only paid the deposit through them. The credit card company would be interested in all proceedings but not likely heavily involved. They would likely add weight to my case which is good.

Obviously the above is an opinion and readers should seek their own advice - this is specific to my situation.

In my case the recommendation is to arrange a meeting with the Sales Manager (I was planning to anyway), discuss that I've taken legal advice and instigated a dispute on the original deposit transaction with the credit card company. This should make them realise that I am very serious and will hopefully tease out an appropriate settlement.

Here we go....