Medway council lied about overpayment recovery

Dean0537

<strong>Deception</strong>

I recently moved to a stage 2 complaint about the recovery of my overpaid benefits, we were dissatisfied with the first reply so we were advised by a specialist benefit advisor to complain to the CECO. We soon got a response which shocked us:

The letter quoted the Housing Benefit !regulations for use by way of example to explain the reason why they could not uphold a decision to stop the recovery of overpaid housing and council tax benefit.!

We argued that we should not be expected to repay the over payment for a number of reasons.

1. The resident does not have access to any benefit payments as they are sent direct to his landlord. Therefor he could not possibly be expected to know how much was paid or when at the time.

2. None of the errors were the fault of the resident, instead poor administration by Medway council and the DWP led to the overpayments. Thus amounting to "official error".

The resident first made a former complaint in which he disputed the findings of the investigating officer, this led to a second complaint directly to the CECO. After a long wait the resident finally received a reply from the CECO, the investigating officer wrote the following reply:

Dear Mr ******
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Complaint concerning housing benefit overpayments

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I am writing further to my email of today regarding !the further concerns about your liability to repay overpayments and additional points that you would like clarified.

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I have consulted with the relevant service area and in answer to your first question, regarding whether a reason and a breakdown of an overpayment !should be provided if an overpayment is a Local Authority/official error, I have discovered that the following is a statutory requirement for all recoverable overpayments of Housing Benefit under HB schedule 9, paragraph 15.

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This states the overpayment notification letters/notices must contain the following information:

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- the fact that there is a recoverable overpayment

- the reason why there is a recoverable overpayment

- the amount of the recoverable overpayment

- how that amount was calculated

- the benefit weeks to which the recoverable overpayment relates

- if the overpayment is to be deducted from ongoing benefit, the amount of the deduction

!

!

In answer to your second question, regarding whether overpayments of benefit can be recovered by the Local Authority if the error is down to an official error, I can confirm that the authority can recover overpayments under these circumstances.!

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Housing Benefit regulation HB100 (1) advises an 'official error' overpayment can be recovered if:

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- it arose because of an official error and the claimant, someone acting on his or her behalf, or the payee, could reasonably have been expected to realise it was an overpayment , or

- it is due to an error (or fraud) of the claimant or a third party: or

- it is no-one's fault ( THIS IS THE FABRICATED BIT)

!

I am also aware from your letter that you have stated that as you informed us of the changes in your circumstances at the appropriate time, you cannot be held responsible for the length of time taken to process the change and as such, you should not be accountable for the overpayments. I also note that you have advised that as payments were going to your landlord, you would not have known that you were being overpaid as you did not have sight of the payments.

!!

Unfortunately, it is not always possible to avoid an overpayment occurring on a benefit claim and even though this may result in a Local Authority/Official error causing part or all of the overpayment, this does not mean that the overpayment is not recoverable, as regulation HB100(1) would need to be considered.

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I am further informed that a typical example of how this regulation would be considered is as follows:

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- where a person stops receiving Jobseekers Allowance because they have started work and the Local Authority do not action the change for 2 weeks, this results in an official error overpayment for those 2 weeks.

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The Local Authority would consider that although the error for the 2 week overpayment is a Local Authority/Official error, under HB Regulation 100(1), !the tenant could reasonably have known that they were being overpaid and as such, the overpayment would be recoverable.

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As previously advised in Mr ********** letter of 8 May 2012, the overpayments that were queried by yourself, have been reviewed and it has been decided that the overpayment decisions made under Housing Benefit regulation 100(1) at the time the overpayments occurred, were correct.


I am for the reasons stated above unable to uphold your complaint. As this is my provisional view you are welcome to send me any further information or evidence that might change it. !I can also send you details of how to pursue your complaint further, should you wish to do so. !If I do not hear from you within the next two weeks, the Council’s consideration into your complaint will be formally closed. !No further action would then be taken. !If you require more time, please let me know as soon as possible.

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Yours sincerely,

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***** ****

Customer Relations Investigation Officer



So as you can see yourself the investigating officer has added a third point:

*it is no-ones fault

Upon reading the regulations we can confirm that this 3rd point does not exist and have therefor been added to the regulations by way of conscious effort, the deception is far worse than it may read as it is an intentional act of deception to unlawfully prevent the outcome favoring the claimant. This is local authority deception and fraud misleading the very people it is designed to protect. This is a major breach of trust and one which will not go unpunished.

Confirmation from a uk welfare benefits specialist says this is the single worse legal example ever witnessed!

Dunroamin

Do you owe the money?

Dean0537

No we do not, we have paid for one independant welfare benefits special list to view thecorrespondane and have also had this verified from two other specialists, there is no way we would have known how much was paid and when as we have no access to the accounts and they are paid direct to the housing association. None of the overpayments were a result of what we did or didnt do, medway council have deceptivly added a 3rd point to the housing benefits regulations and its a point which simply does not exsist.

Dean0537

There is simply no excuse for lies especially when ir comes directly from the chief execs office!!!

Dunroamin

Dean0537 wrote: »

No we do not, we have paid for one independant welfare benefits special list to view thecorrespondane and have also had this verified from two other specialists, there is no way we would have known how much was paid and when as we have no access to the accounts and they are paid direct to the housing association. None of the overpayments were a result of what we did or didnt do, medway council have deceptivly added a 3rd point to the housing benefits regulations and its a point which simply does not exsist.

That doesn't really answer my question, although it certainly implies that you actually did receive an overpayment.

Mrs_Arcanum

If the overpayment went directly to the HA you should not be involved at all.

One thing to check is your rent statements. You should get these every quarter regardless of who is paying on your rent. Probably not the most user friendly document but somewhere the rent payment should be showing up.

Dean0537

Dunroamin wrote: »

That doesn't really answer my question, although it certainly implies that you actually did receive an overpayment.

You seems to be indicating that i should be excempt from the regulations and be responsible for anothers mistake, im an army veteran of 16 years and only on disability benefit and housing benefit because of injury sustained, im not fiddling anyone, we were overpaid this has never been desputed but who is responible for the overpayment is in question

Dean0537

Can you imagine if you were overpaid, you had no part to play in the overpayment, you had no way of knowing you were overpaid because your rent statments are in arrears and the legislation in force is in your favour but the local council ignore it! Then ontop of this the response qoutes HB regulations which have been exaggerated and includes fabricated points to protect them.

Marisco

Dean0537 wrote: »

You seems to be indicating that i should be excempt from the regulations and be responsible for anothers mistake, im an army veteran of 16 years and only on disability benefit and housing benefit because of injury sustained, im not fiddling anyone, we were overpaid this has never been desputed but who is responible for the overpayment is in question

Makes no difference, you'll still have to pay it back. A few years ago I had to claim HB, and when I got a job, I informed them and filled in the relevant paperwork. Although I had started work I was still getting HB, and in my ignorance I thought it was because my wage was so low.

A few months down the line I got a letter saying they'd overpaid me, so I phoned them and told them I'd informed them etc, and she said I yes I had, and although it was their error I still had to pay it back! So I did, at £10 per month!! You'll be lucky if you get anywhere with councils, they are relentless in getting their money back, best just to get a payment agreement with them and save yourself a load of grief!

Dean0537

Marisco wrote: »

Makes no difference, you'll still have to pay it back. A few years ago I had to claim HB, and when I got a job, I informed them and filled in the relevant paperwork. Although I had started work I was still getting HB, and in my ignorance I thought it was because my wage was so low.

A few months down the line I got a letter saying they'd overpaid me, so I phoned them and told them I'd informed them etc, and she said I yes I had, and although it was their error I still had to pay it back! So I did, at £10 per month!! You'll be lucky if you get anywhere with councils, they are relentless in getting their money back, best just to get a payment agreement with them and save yourself a load of grief!

I was making the point im no sponger, however point taken but this doesnt excuse the fact they have lied in the response, HB regulations do not state " unless its nobodies fault" and for the record the amount is paid beck entirley all ready, its the lawful side to who is responsible which concerns myself and the specialists acting on our behalf.

earthbound_misfit

But how can they possibly expect him to pay it back, when it's the housing association who have the money?
I know they can make you pay back overpayments that weren't your fault, but that seems to be a red herring here - surely they should be chasing the person who directly received the money?