Some questions about Tenant Deposit Scheme

simmed

Firstly, I live with 6 people. What they do is none of my business. If one of them, say, causes damage, would ALL of us be liable under the tenant deposit scheme?

G_M

simmed wrote: »

Firstly, I live with 6 people. What they do is none of my business. If one of them, say, causes damage, would ALL of us be liable under the tenant deposit scheme?
it is not the deposit scheme that matters - it is the type of tenancy you have. See below
E.g. in their bedroom OR in one of the communal areas. Because our landlord seems to have only done it under "one" scheme (with me being the official holder of all the deposits)

Secondly, what happens if tenant A goes into tenant B's room and causes damage? What happens if tenant B knows it was tenant A? Tenant B claims off tenant A. Nothing to do with either the landlord, or the deposit scheme. It's an internal dispute between tenantsWhat happens if tenant B doesn't know who it was? Then tenant B will not know who to claim off!

Thirdly (slightly relating to the second question), what happens if damage happens to the property that isn't the tenant's fault?
Then the LL has to take the finaincial hit
Since living here, I have had 2 problems. The first is that the radiator in my bedroom has had some problems - the brackets attaching it to the wall fell off, meaning the radiator now wobbles back and forth (of course it's been temporarily fixed by propping it up). I told the landlord about this problem about 8 months ago, and have reminded them a lot since, but he always never does anything about it.
Have you reported this to the LL IN WRITING? And kept a copy?
I was out when this happened, and I assume that it was either a) one of my house mates or b) we live next to a main road and the house rumbles a LOT, especially when big lorries go past, so that just might be taking its toll combined with shoddy worksmanship. The second is a problem that happened when some plaster fell off the wall (I assume that it had already been damaged from previous tenants). As it looked an eyesore I patched it up with filler and paint, I did an okay job but it's noticable. Again, I'm wondering what the situation is with the TDS when something happens that isn't my fault at all.Again, did you report this to the LL IN WRITING? And before doing amateur repairs, did you get the LL's permission in writing?[/QUOTE]

If all the tenants signed the same "joint and several" tenancy agreement, then all tenants are eqyally responsible for the entire deposit. If deductions are made by the LL, the tenants will have to work out between themselves who is responsible and who gets how much of whatever deposit is returned.

Similarly, if the LL wants to claim (or sue) for either missing rent or damage, he can sue ALL the tenants, or any one, or several. That's what "joint and several" means. So far as the LL is concerned, (and indeed as far as the law is concerned) the 'Tenant' is a single concept (ie the 6 of you together are 'the tenant'), so the LL just expects the full rent (and doesn't care which of you pays/does not pay) and deducts debts/damage from the deposit (again, not caring about arguements between the 6 of you)

However, if each tenant has a separate tenancy agreement (ie there are 6 tenancies) then each tenant is responsible for their own tenancy, and they should each jave paid a seperate deposit.

It sounds, however, like a single "joint and several" in this case:

our landlord seems to have only done it under "one" scheme (with me being the official holder of all the deposits)

pmlindyloo

First of all did you have a signed inventory done when you began the tenancy?

if not, then the LL will find it very difficult to deduct money from your deposit as he would have no proof that he damagei wasn't there when you moved in.

Having said that then any damage done to the property should be reported to the LL in writing and then the LL can repair it and bill you (deduct from the deposit) if he can prove that you or your house mates were responsible or if you admt that it was your or the one of the other tenant's fault.

You say it is in your name as the lead tenant. This is a 'quirk' of the system but it does mean, I believe, that the deposit(s) will be given back to you.

That means that you will have to have one of those conversations with your house mates about who is responsible for what and divvy out the deposits accordingly. (I take it that there are deposits x 6 taken but all under your name?)

What sort of tenancy agreement have you? Joint one? Single ones? Did you all move in that the same time? How long is the tenancy agreement? Need to know to give more information or correct anything wrongly assumed.

simmed

The radiator - no I haven't given anything to the landlord in writing. Should I send them a letter? Even though it was 8 months ago?

The plaster - again I haven't given anything to the landlord in writing, and didn't get "permission" to fix it (don't really want to have my bedroom with a horrible ugly mark on the wall for weeks until the landlord (if ever) fixes it)

I can't remember if there was an inventory signed at the start. We signed a tenancy agreement and that was all, so I would say no, no inventory. However the landlord has got pictures of all the rooms beforehand, so they would obviously be able to give a "before" and "after" picture of e.g. the mark on my wall, and say that it occurred during my tenancy. The point is that it is completely unrelated to me and wasn't caused by me, so do I still have to worry about it?

Sorry for my poor answers but I'm not sure. We all moved in at the same time, and each of us signed a tenancy agreement. That's all I can remember. All of us paid the LL an amount for the TDS, and I am the sole person in charge of it.

G_M

simmed wrote: »

The radiator - no I haven't given anything to the landlord in writing. Should I send them a letter? Even though it was 8 months ago?Yes. A letter. NOT a text/email or phonecall.

The plaster - again I haven't given anything to the landlord in writing, and didn't get "permission" to fix it (don't really want to have my bedroom with a horrible ugly mark on the wall for weeks until the landlord (if ever) fixes it) Again, to cover yourself you should always put things in writing.

I can't remember if there was an inventory signed at the start. We signed a tenancy agreement and that was all, Please answer the questions above - did you all sign the same tenancy agreement, or do you each have a seperate TA>so I would say no, no inventory. However the landlord has got pictures of all the rooms beforehand, so they would obviously be able to give a "before" and "after" picture Unless you signed the inventory/photos he does not have your agreement that they correctly describe the condition at the startof e.g. the mark on my wall, and say that it occurred during my tenancy. The point is that it is completely unrelated to me and wasn't caused by me, so do I still have to worry about it?As said before, it depends what type of tenancy agreement(s) is in place.

Sorry for my poor answers but I'm not sure. We all moved in at the same time, and each of us signed a tenancy agreement. That's all I can remember. All of us paid the LL an amount for the TDS, and I am the sole person in charge of it.

each of us signed a tenancy agreement.

Do you mean you each signed the same tenancy agreement?

Or you each signed a seperate one......?

simmed

I believe we each signed the same agreement, one piece of paper. I'm still not sure about one thing, though, you say "As said before, it depends what type of tenancy agreement(s) is in place.", why does it? Can a tenant be charged for damage if it wasn't the fault of the tenant?

G_M

simmed wrote: »

I believe we each signed the same agreement, one piece of paper. I'm still not sure about one thing, though, you say "As said before, it depends what type of tenancy agreement(s) is in place.", why does it? Can a tenant be charged for damage if it wasn't the fault of the tenant?

If you all signed the same agreement, then legally "The Tenant" is person A + person B + person C etc).

As I said in an earlier post, 'The Tenant' is a single entity. It does not matter to the landlord (or the judge if there is a court case) WHICH of the 6 people caused the damage, provided the damage was done by "The Tenant" (ie ONE or more of the 6).

It is then for the 6 individuals to sort out their own internal liabilities between themselves.

If on the other hand, you had each signed seperate tenancies (ie the LL had 6 different tenancies with 6 pieces of paper each signed by ONE tenant) then the LL would have to deduct costs from the individual who caused the damage.

simmed

G_M wrote: »

If you all signed the same agreement, then legally "The Tenant" is person A + person B + person C etc).

As I said in an earlier post, 'The Tenant' is a single entity. It does not matter to the landlord (or the judge if there is a court case) WHICH of the 6 people caused the damage, provided the damage was done by "The Tenant" (ie ONE or more of the 6).

It is then for the 6 individuals to sort out their own internal liabilities between themselves.

If on the other hand, you had each signed seperate tenancies (ie the LL had 6 different tenancies with 6 pieces of paper each signed by ONE tenant) then the LL would have to deduct costs from the individual who caused the damage.

Ok, got it, thanks.

What if damage occurs to the house that is not the fault of the tenants? E.g. in my case, the radiator problem.

Werdnal

If damage occurs to the property, which is no-one's fault, you report it to the LL, preferably in writing, when it happens. You are then in the clear as to what happened, when and give the LL the opportunity to fix it. If this damage happened some time ago, and you "propped up" the rad to make a temporary fix, but didn't report it formally, my guess is LL will think it was someone's fault and you have tried to ignore/cover it by not making him aware at the time.

Indeed, it is a tenant's obligation to report this type of damage - what if the dangling rad sprung a leak due to it not being properly fixed to the wall, and flooded your room? You would then be responsible for the cost of the damage, as you had left the situation unreported. If you had reported it, and the leak followed due to LL's lack of attention to repairs, he would not be able to blame anyone but himself.

You have previously posted about this here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3994563

and received advice on the plaster issue in that thread.

simmed

Werdnal wrote: »

If damage occurs to the property, which is no-one's fault, you report it to the LL, preferably in writing, when it happens. You are then in the clear as to what happened, when and give the LL the opportunity to fix it. If this damage happened some time ago, and you "propped up" the rad to make a temporary fix, but didn't report it formally, my guess is LL will think it was someone's fault and you have tried to ignore/cover it by not making him aware at the time.

Indeed, it is a tenant's obligation to report this type of damage - what if the dangling rad sprung a leak due to it not being properly fixed to the wall, and flooded your room? You would then be responsible for the cost of the damage, as you had left the situation unreported. If you had reported it, and the leak followed due to LL's lack of attention to repairs, he would not be able to blame anyone but himself.

You have previously posted about this here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3994563

and received advice on the plaster issue in that thread.

I did make him aware of it at the time - a day or two after it happened I talked to him face to face about it. I have mentioned it many times since then, but never in writing.

One question about the "mentioning in writing" - how does this change things? I know it is meant to give the feeling that the tenant has officially contacted the LL, but surely the LL could just deny ever receiving a letter? How can a tenant prove that they sent a letter?

Werdnal

simmed wrote: »

I did make him aware of it at the time - a day or two after it happened I talked to him face to face about it. I have mentioned it many times since then, but never in writing.

One question about the "mentioning in writing" - how does this change things? I know it is meant to give the feeling that the tenant has officially contacted the LL, but surely the LL could just deny ever receiving a letter? How can a tenant prove that they sent a letter?

You post it to them and keep the free proof of posting from the post office. First class post is deemed as served (ie delivered to the postal address) 2 working days after posting.

Reporting in writing proves you have made the LL aware of it, and in the result of a dispute about lack of repairs or claims against your deposit, you can produce the letter in your favour either in court, or provide it to the deposit protection service.

Anyone can deny a conversation, delete a text, claim never to have received an email, but a letter and proof that you posted it, is very difficult to refute!

As you seem to see your LL frequently, does he live in the same property?