iva con

Isis_Black

Had you got your final completion certificate stating the IVA is completed and done with??
Because if your in that time period of final payment and conclusion certificate you are still bound by the rules that you must declare any windfalls but how much Is taken depends on your IVA regs.
But if you've had that final completion certificate thrn you need to go speak to your old IVA provider and also those who claimed your PPI. As you are no longer bound by the repayment rules and atelier clear of your debt so can get back on with life again

LLouiseR

jimmy01 wrote: »

then today i got a letter saying lloyds tsb have payed my money in to the iva , how is this possible , more the point is this legal , full and final settle ment shoud mean what it says ,so 1 year on from being told (and a letter ) stating all creditors excepted my 23,000 in payment and a lumpsum of 8,200 , now they want my ppi money i need some help please

Back to the original post.....

Most creditors would just 're- adjust' (reduce) the balance owed by the value of the claim and you would not get a lump sum anyway.

That they gave it to the IP not just reduced the balance would suggest that there is a clause in the IVA stipulating that they must do this - its possible they have lost out as they may only keep a proportion of their refund and in affect paid the other creditors.

The question of whether or not they can do this should lie in the terms of the IVA and I would suggest reading this first. If there is any doubt contact your IP as they will still be dealing with the issue.

Depth_Charge

Gimpsdad wrote: »

Ok.

"Hi Gimpsdad

Taking into account some of your recent comments

Write 70% or more off your debts by going down the IVA route, make 5 years payments and you will be debt free, thats what some of the adverts say dont they?

Adverts telling people that an IVA will get you free of your debts, which may be true in some cases....but

What happens to the tens of thousands of IVAs that fail, how much is claimed in fees by the IVA providers?, what happens to the people where an IVA fails? do the IVA companies help them or want to know when they cant make any more money out of people?

What happens to to the people in IVAs that fail when there is equity in their homes?

Who is appointed as the trustee in bankruptcy when an IVA fails, how much is paid in fees to the trustee when a assets such as a persons home is realised?

How much do some of the IVA companies take in commission out of PPI claims and why, its not their money is it?

How many IVA companies help people with bankruptcy or any other debt remedy when an IVA fails?

Its simple really, how can advice be independent and impartial if the bottom line is profit?

It makes me wonder, just who's side are some of the IVA companies on?"

In order.

I have seen IVA's write 99p in the £ off. On that basis, I can legitimately claim that IVA's can write off 99p in the £. Not sure of your point here.

Tens of thousands of IVA's fail? A one sided statistic if ever there was one. Perhaps you may want to point forum users to the number that succeed to give a balanced view. You may also want to state that all IVA fees are detailed at the outset, and are subject to approval by both debtor and creditors alike. Hardly a surprise therefore. However, in fairness, the deal, again which both debtor and creditors are made aware of, is that the majority of the fees are collected at the front end, so if it fails than the fees do seem disproportionate. Still worth noting that you know at the outset though. What is your alternative? Trust to luck on a DMP? Most reputable IP's will help as much as they can if it fails.

What happens to people with equity in their home if an IVA fails? As an IVA protects your assets whereas with a BR you lose that control, and with a DMP you leave yourself open to charging orders, big thread on here about that, or even BR. Your argument seems to be don't even bother trying? Anyway, the equity of a home in a failed IVA is exactly the same as it was pre IVA. Creditors may go after it, they may not. Who knows? The point is that they can't in an IVA, which is a huge attraction.

Who is appointed as trustee in bankruptcy if an IVA fails? What makes you think that bankruptcy follows if an IVA fails? It is possible, but highly unlikely. For the answer as to who is appointed if it goes that far then you need to speak to the OR.

For the commission question, you need to ask each IP. Payplan appoint a firm that takes 40%. Payplan don't take that, but undoubtedly there will be some sort of arrangement. Other IP's will have other arrangements. CCCS don't seem too fussed whether you claim it or not, but that may be more down to their own unique arrangement with creditors rather than anything else, however as they arrange very few IVA's then I don't suppose it matters too much in the bigger picture.

You ask about impartiality. The ASA says that any organisation that has a financial interest in the outcome of a case cannot be described as impartial. Who, therefore, IS impartial? You can rest assured though that those who are appointed by debtors act in the interests of the debtors. Those that are encouraged by creditors must act similarly you would have thought.

Hi again Gimpsdad

I have had time to look again through your answers etc.

Tens of thousands of IVAs fail? to which your answer was - A one sided statistic if ever there was one"

Do you actually know what can happen in failed IVAs where there is equity in someones home?

To be honest looking at the above and the rest of what you have put its a joke really.

I just wonder what others in the Insolvency & IVA professions might think when they see some of the rubbish and drivel that you have put here.

People can make up their own minds on what they read here.

Also OFT guidelines for anybody thats interested

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/credit_licences/oft366rev.pdf

Back on to the subject of the original post guys

Just my take on things

Gimpsdad

depthcharge takes exception to general answers to his or her questions and then gets a little rude, so allow me to expand.

Tens of thousands of IVA's fail? Please post the link to the insolvency service that provided those figures for you so we can all see that you haven't just made a figure up.

Do I know what happens to equity in a failed IVA? Yes thanks, unless there is specific recourse in a proposal to bankrupt a debtor in a failed IVA then IP's will close the IVA. The debtor is back to where they were when they started. Which seems very much like the answer that I gave before.

Amusingly, you ask about and post a link to, OFT guidelines. All very useful, except that this is a thread on IVA's and DRO's and there are no OFT guidelines for IVA's, you have put the guidelines about DMP's. OFT guidelines also have nothing to do with the IVA protocol.

Depth_Charge

Gimpsdad wrote: »

depthcharge takes exception to general answers to his or her questions and then gets a little rude, so allow me to expand.

Tens of thousands of IVA's fail? Please post the link to the insolvency service that provided those figures for you so we can all see that you haven't just made a figure up.

Do I know what happens to equity in a failed IVA? Yes thanks, unless there is specific recourse in a proposal to bankrupt a debtor in a failed IVA then IP's will close the IVA. The debtor is back to where they were when they started. Which seems very much like the answer that I gave before.

Amusingly, you ask about and post a link to, OFT guidelines. All very useful, except that this is a thread on IVA's and DRO's and there are no OFT guidelines for IVA's, you have put the guidelines about DMP's. OFT guidelines also have nothing to do with the IVA protocol.

Hi Gimpsdad

Nobody is being rude, and maybe you wish to look at the content of some your posts, a nice, but puerile try though, to perhaps attempt to cover up what you have previously put, but Im afraid it does not work with me.

IVA failure figures up till 2008/9 below, they dont seem to get published very often, I cant for the life of me think why, but that should not matter as you probably know the up too date ones given that you asked me to point out the the numbers that succeed to give a balanced view in a previous post. Show me?

Have you read the OFT guidelines? (so they do not mention IVAs & DROs)

Have you read the IVA protocol, Im not connecting the two by the way, you are.

I would throw the towel in Gimpsdad, its that bad.





IVA failure rates released

IVA failure rates released by IS today

Depth_Charge

Gimpsdad put..

Amusingly, you ask about and post a link to, OFT guidelines. All very useful, except that this is a thread on IVA's and DRO's and there are no OFT guidelines for IVA's, you have put the guidelines about DMP's. OFT guidelines also have nothing to do with the IVA protocol.



Hi, last one from me on this Gimpsdad, it may be as you have put 'amusing' but just for the laugh.. this is from the OFT guidelines link.


[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]Scope of the guidance [/FONT][/FONT]
1.10 This guidance applies to persons14 who provide debt advice, debt management and/or credit information services. It applies, therefore, to standard licence holders and applicants (and their employees) providing advice and assistance to consumers on how to deal with their debts and the range of debt management options available to them. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes all debt management businesses15 (whether profit-seeking or free-to-client service providers), insolvency practitioners (IPs), approved intermediaries for Debt Relief Orders (DROs),16 Debt Arrangement Scheme (DAS) approved money advisers,17mortgage arrears counsellors, independent financial advisers, introducers and other intermediaries, lead generation and claims management businesses, which are engaged in the licensable activities of debt

1.11 When we refer to debt management ‘options’ in this guidance, this includes – but is not limited to - [FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]informal [/FONT][/FONT]arrangements such as debt management plans, token repayments offers and full and final settlement offers and [FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]formal [/FONT][/FONT]insolvency procedures/[FONT=Univers,Univers][FONT=Univers,Univers]statutory [/FONT][/FONT]schemes such as Individual Voluntary Arrangements (IVAs), Debt Relief Orders (DRO), Protected Trust Deeds (PTDs), Trust Deeds, the Debt Arrangement Scheme (DAS) and bankruptcy.18

Gimpsdad

Excellent, OFT guidelines do indeed mention IP's and IVA's, looks like you got me there so happy to admit it, but there is little specific on the product itself.

The latest figures you use to back up your claim indicate 4.229 terminated IVA's, or 10.9%

That isn't 10's of thousands now is it? Perhaps you will have the good grace to recognise that, perhaps you won't.

In other words, the failure rate on IVA's is far lower than you would have people believe.

debtinfo

Hi gimpsdad, although i think depth charges posts are a little aggressive he is right on the figures and your interpretation of the figures is incorrect.

As you can see from the table the data is from August 2009 which means that the figure you quote ie IVA's that started in 2008 is the number that have failed after only 1 year of operation ie 10.9% have failed in their first year, those IVA's still have an average of 4 years left to run so the failure rate will certainly increase. as you can see at that time only 1.6% of those IVA's had actually successfully completed (which presumably would have been the F&F) ones although of course many would have done since then.

If you look at the ones started in 2007, so the ones that had been running for 2 years with 3 years left to run, 24.5% or 10280 had already failed and presumably more of thise will have failed since.

to get an accurate figure you need to go back to ones started in 2004 (ie so they have had 5 years by the time of these figures in 2009) which shows 32.7% had failed over the course of a full IVA period. although the actual number of ones started in that year is only 3512 this is out of a total amount started of 10725 as IVA's were not as common then

30% is about average for IVA failures and with many more IVA's being started in recent years it is a fair description to say that 10's of thousands of IVA's fail each year. Although it should be pointed out that although some failures are because of poor advice initially the majority of IVA's that fail in my experience are because of changing circumstances over the 5 years which is why i always stress to people entering them the chances that it may fail if their income changes to a point where no new agreement can be reached

Gimpsdad

Fair point well made.

The figures are indeed skewed a little with a massive rise in numbers in recent years. The reasons for the massive increase may be for another debate.

You could, with that logic, argue that 10's of 1,000's of IVA's fail, but to quote that as a bald figure without saying that very many more 10's of 1,000's of IVA's are successful, and not including the caveat that those that do fail are generally for reasons that are beyond anyones control is unrepresentative of the bigger picture. That something unexpected CAN happen in an IVA is not to say that something unexpected WILL happen, and the point also needs to be made that the same thing would have happened whatever course they had chosen.

Depth_Charge

debtinfo wrote: »

Hi gimpsdad, although i think depth charges posts are a little aggressive he is right on the figures and your interpretation of the figures is incorrect.

As you can see from the table the data is from August 2009 which means that the figure you quote ie IVA's that started in 2008 is the number that have failed after only 1 year of operation ie 10.9% have failed in their first year, those IVA's still have an average of 4 years left to run so the failure rate will certainly increase. as you can see at that time only 1.6% of those IVA's had actually successfully completed (which presumably would have been the F&F) ones although of course many would have done since then.

If you look at the ones started in 2007, so the ones that had been running for 2 years with 3 years left to run, 24.5% or 10280 had already failed and presumably more of thise will have failed since.

to get an accurate figure you need to go back to ones started in 2004 (ie so they have had 5 years by the time of these figures in 2009) which shows 32.7% had failed over the course of a full IVA period. although the actual number of ones started in that year is only 3512 this is out of a total amount started of 10725 as IVA's were not as common then

30% is about average for IVA failures and with many more IVA's being started in recent years it is a fair description to say that 10's of thousands of IVA's fail each year. Although it should be pointed out that although some failures are because of poor advice initially the majority of IVA's that fail in my experience are because of changing circumstances over the 5 years which is why i always stress to people entering them the chances that it may fail if their income changes to a point where no new agreement can be reached

Hello there debtlnfo

Thank you for clearing that point up (go steady on the little aggressive stance though, to the point more like, yes I will go with that). No offence taken though, you are welcome to your opinion, no problem there with me.

From what I am seeing (failing & failed IVAs) it would be interesting if they published a more recent set of figures on IVAs as my gut feeling is that too date and for the next couple of years or so they may be much worse. Having said that the PPI claims may help to a certain extent if you get the picture so to speak (as i am quite sure that you do)

Falling incomes and increases in the cost of living are certainly putting the pressure on everything including IVAs is my experience and it can only get worse before it gets better as far as I can see.