Ambiguous parking sign

infamy

Hello people
I've been hit with a PCN in Manchester, when I genuinely believed I was in a legitimate parking space.
I was seeking a parking space when I saw a car pulling out of a full row, creating the only space in a long line of cars parked in a bay off a busy road.
This happened after dark in extremely heavy rain, which meant there was water sluicing across the road - the combination of surface water, heavy rain and street light reflections meant the marking on the road which read "Buses" was obscured - it turns out this was a bay for coaches to drop off visitors to a nearby museum.
I parked with the driver's door next to the kerb, so also couldn't see the road marking when I got out of the car.
There was a parking ticket machine 30 paces away, again reinforcing my belief that I had found a legitimate parking spot - the next bay along IS for parking, I have since realised.

The only sign I saw was 8 ft up a lamp post.
It was headed by the "P" symbol, which again led me to believe it was a parking spot.
Underneath the "P" was a picture of a bus followed by "20 mins No return within one hour"
Am I being stupid by thinking that the sign meant this was a parking spot, but buses could only stay for 20 minutes?
That made sense to me as buses would only want to use it during the day.
I walked away, believing I had parked OK and returned to find I had a ticket - and so did the other cars, who had all presumably made the same mistake.
I emailed the council, but they sent me pictures of the road markings, even though their pictures were taken when the rain had stopped and the flooding cleared.
When I pointed this out, they said the sign was clear. I think it is ambiguous, and a sign which read something like "Buses only - strictly no cars" would be much clearer.
I am refusing to pay - what do you think my chances are?

Mrs_Arcanum

Keep appealing & try & get a photo of when the area is wet to back up your claim.

The white P on a blue ground indicates Parking to me. A back bus on a white ground would mean buses only. Why have both?

However if you were parked against the flow of traffic this could also be classed as an offence.

give_them_FA

So what is the offence code? And take a few photos before they change the signs. From your description the notices don't sound clear.

infamy

Thanks for the reply Mrs A
The chances of me getting back to that area when similar weather conditions are happening - it was extremely heavy rain and flooding - are pretty slim.
I understand that you can park against the flow of traffic as long as you are in a bay off the road, which I was.

infamy

Give them FA
The offence code is 23 - parking in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.
The whole thing appears misleading - the fact that as you pull up you can see a ticket machine which is exactly 32 paces from the furthest end of the bus parking bay just adds to the illusion that it is a car parking spot.
And the sign on the lamp post is about 8ft off the ground, which indicates that it is intended to be read by coach drivers, not pedestrians or car drivers.

vax2002

Can you post the location
it is written on the ticket
if the sign is as you say, it is not a permitted variant of a parking sign and will be ruled no contravention at adjudication.
I need to see this sign ? location please

Coupon-mad

infamy wrote: »

Give them FA
The offence code is 23 - parking in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.
The whole thing appears misleading - the fact that as you pull up you can see a ticket machine which is exactly 32 paces from the furthest end of the bus parking bay just adds to the illusion that it is a car parking spot.
And the sign on the lamp post is about 8ft off the ground, which indicates that it is intended to be read by coach drivers, not pedestrians or car drivers.

You need to post a pic of your PCN (both sides) in a new topic on pepipoo. Most people win appeals with pepipoo's help but you may have to go as far as adjudication (it's not like Court!).

Read a few relevant threads (look for other ones with headings about loading bays and 'not that class of vehicle', search the forum there and read a bit - but don't post on someone else's thread, start your own like you have here, with pics).

Also read the pepipoo FAQs like 'how to post pictures' and post here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

HTH and don't forget that the odds are in your favour if you appeal far enough. Most people actually win in the end.

infamy

Hello vax,
Sorry for the delay - been away for the bank holiday weekend so just catching up.
The location, in Manchester, is given as "Liverpool Road, OPP AKBARS".
In fact, I have just tried to locate the area on Google Street, and on there the place where I parked is clearly a car parking spot, so it must have been re-designated since Google took their pics.
I have parked in that area in the past, but don't remember specifics, so that probably added to my belief that I was in a legitimate parking spot