Any advice is good advice.INCLUDING SOA~PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN

sistafromanothermista

Ok, this is to be a bit long winded but bear with me as i am seeing this as an outsider....


Right, where to start. Back last year my sister received a letter from the council requesting the last 3 months worth of payslips for her HB claim. She sent these in, waited 2 weeks and was then sent a letter saying she had been overpaid HB and CTB for the past 3 yrs :eek:
Totalling 4k
She disputed this as when she had started her new job (3 yrs previous) and filled in a HB &CTB form she was just starting a new job, she over estimated her earning at 7ph working 22 hr per week (written manually on form) as she knew she's be working between 16-20 per week. (new job was as a care worker various shifts not set hrs as such)
As she had only been in the job 3 weeks prior she only had a training wage slip (not full wages) so when council asked her at this stage for a wage slip she told them (verbally) that it would show a lower amount due to it being a training wage and to take any calculations as £7ph 22 hrs per week.
So, time passes and she receives letters every so often which she glances at and as circumstances hadn't changed presumed they were correct (v stupid i know)
Fast forward to where we were at the start of this ramble and the council wrote not only saying she had been overpaid benefits but requesting proof of income yadda yadda. She called the council to arrange to pay back the debt as even after disputing the charges was told no, you owe us.
Arranged to pay back the overpayment of HB @ £10 per week.When calling to pay back the CTB overpayment wa stold she would have to wait for a summons letter before they would look at an agreement to pay accruing another £80 for each overpayment period (4) :eek:
Had no other option as they wouldn't accept anything less than the full payment without a summons letter (sounds ridiculous to me)
A few weeks later she received a letter calling her for a meeting with the fraud investigation team at the council, along she went. They asked her lots of questions and said she would hear an outcome of meeting in 2-6 weeks. This was feb time. Heard this week that they are taking her to court at the beginning of Aug for fraud :eek: despite at this time having and keeping to an arrangement to pay.
What will they achieve by this? being a care worker if she is prosecuted she will lose her job with this on her record and they're getting their money back now!
They have also told her to seek legal advice.
This brings me onto the CT. Have heard nothing then they send her a letter asking for £80 (which she hasn't got, she had already sent 2 means test forms in to them in the past 6 months) so she went there today to try and sort out a plan and they have told her it's in the hands of the bailiffs!:eek:


Bit of background, she has 2 kids, works part time eves as a careworker for the elderly and suffers from severe anxiety and depression (I suspect it to be ME) she buries her head in the sand (See full story above:o) and at the first sight of a problem she hides. She also will not speak to anyone by phone so i have to do all this for her.

I guess the questions are where does she stand? Is she likely to go to prison? get a fine? and if the bailiffs come knocking due to non payment what then?

I have asked her to call me tonight so i can fill out an SOA to post on here so we can see (me too as i have no idea of her SOA) Although she tells me she doesn't have enough money to live on let alone pay these debts...

As said any advice would be good as i have never been in this sort of situation so can't really offer her any constructive advice.
(She is however going to CAB for a 15min slot in 2 weeks to see if she is entitiled to legal aid)


SOA;


Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 1
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... 1

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 500
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 868
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 1368

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 200
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 42
Electricity............................. 63
Gas..................................... 40
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 38.42
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 115
TV Licence.............................. 12.12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 400
Clothing................................ 70
Petrol/diesel........................... 160
Road tax................................ 15
Car Insurance........................... 70.29
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0
Car parking............................. 4
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 20
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 13.55
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 12.72
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 100
Haircuts................................ 12
Entertainment........................... 10
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 1398.1


Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 1500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 4000

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
council tax arrears............888.......0.........0
Housing benefit arrea..........4000......10.2......0
rent arrears...................70........10........0
Total unsecured debts..........4958......20.2......-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,368
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,398.1
Available for debt repayments........... -30.1
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 20.2
Amount short for making debt repayments. -50.3

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 4,000
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -4,958
Net Assets.............................. -958

Created using the SOA calculator at https://www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

sistafromanothermista

Any help would be great
Mind you looking at her SOA i was :eek::eek: £400 on food!!
I have told her she needs to cut this, plus the b-day pressies can be reduced too.
Car insurance is high due to age and the fact she had an accident so premiums went up weeks after renewing her claim.

dancingfairy

Hi- a few thoughts:
1) is she claiming all the benefits she entitled to now?
2) I would see if she can get some help via legal aid/free consultation at a solicitors/community legal aid thing regarding the alleged overpayments etc.
3) Why on earth is she paying over 100 a month on mobile phone bills - this can't be right surely? She needs to get herself on the lowest monthly tariff and her children should be on PAYG (for emergencies only).
4), Presents also seems high - she's going to need to cut this back. Close family only, handmade presents, second hand, bought in sales etc etc here.
5) If she is made to pay back the council tax then it is unlikely she will be sent to prison. Prison is for those that persisently stick their head in the sand and/or won't pay. The bailiffs are only allowed to charge set fees for things (see the National Debtline website for more info on this). The main rule is she must not under any circumstances allow the bailiffs for Council tax into her house (this will allow them to legitamately add hundreds of pounds in extra charges). This needs to be avoided at all costs. Some baiiffs will lie/manipulate/cheat their way in so it is important to be forewarned. DO not let them in to list her furniture/phone the boss/use the loo (or for any other reason) etc. Also she should avoid letting them levy on her vehicle by parking it several streets away as this will also let them charge high fees. Assuming she doesn't let them in (and they don't levy on a vehicle) then they can charge for a maximum of 42.50 for their time. She should communicate with them in writing (and preferably CC the council in as well to all communication). IF she needs to pay it back she should repeatedly make it clear that she is a can't pay not a won't pay. She should obviously pay what she can - even if it's 1 pound towards the arrears. Eventually the bailiffs will get fed up and pass the debt back to the council anyway. Please tell her not to let them in under any circumstances. IF they are allowed in peacefully the first time then they will not only legitamately be allowed to charge extortionate fees but they can then break in the second time to take these goods, this is why it is vitally important not to let them in.
Please note this info is for council tax only as other types of debt dealt with by bailiffs may need dealing with in a different way.
A different approach may be to see whether a DRO (debt reduction order) may be the way forward as this wipes out a lot of debts (not sure how benefit debts are dealt with).
She might want to give someone like National Debtline a ring or CCCS to deal with setting up repayment plans etc.
Best of Luck sorting this mess out.
df

rising_from_the_ashes

Hi Sister, few thoughts from me below .... afraid I can't advise on what's likely to happen - others more knowledgeable on this side of things should hopefully be along shortly.

sistafromanothermista wrote: »

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 1
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... 1

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 500
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 868
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 1368

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 200
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 42
Electricity............................. 63 This is high - usually gas is more than elec? What does she leave on/use a lot as it must be her consumption?
Gas..................................... 40
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 38.42
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 115:eek: Sorry but ......
TV Licence.............................. 12.12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 400 She should be able to get at least £200 off this - get her to try the Grocery Challenge on the old style board - great tips & friendly bunch of posters
Clothing................................ 70 Sorry but this is too much
Petrol/diesel........................... 160
Road tax................................ 15
Car Insurance........................... 70.29 Try comparison site
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0Need something in here
Car parking............................. 4
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 20
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 13.55
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 12.72 This is quite high - try comparison sites
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 100:eek: Every month? Sorry but .... cut to £30
Haircuts................................ 12
Entertainment........................... 10
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 1398.1


Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 4000
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 4000

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
council tax arrears............888.......0.........0
Housing benefit arrea..........4000......10.2......0
rent arrears...................70........10........0
Total unsecured debts..........4958......20.2......-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,368
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,398.1
Available for debt repayments........... -30.1
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 20.2
Amount short for making debt repayments. -50.3

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 4,000
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -4,958
Net Assets.............................. -958

Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

It should be relatively easy for her to balance the books - mobiles, groceries, christmas, clothes etc all have scope for savings (and some big ones!)

Can she not downgrade the car?

If she sold that and spent say £1k on another one, that would nearly wipe out her debt in one go - Sorry if that's harsh but if she makes some cuts she could get rid of the debt fairly quickly

sistafromanothermista

Hi, thanks to you both i have passed on the info about NOT under any circumstances let the bailiffs in.

With regards to the SOA, the gas and elec are high as they are on pre-payment meter with debts possibly.
Mobiles are stuck in a 2 yr contract so can't get out of that either

Definitely could cut rest of bills down. She hasn't got access to the internet so can't go on old money saving thread unfortunately.

I am relaying all this to her so thankyou for all your help.
She has said mobile is high due to it being her only phone (no landline)

thatsean

My first thought is that she needs to sell the car. If she legitimately needs a car then she can get one for 1-2k and have half the money straight away.

She needs to look at her phone tariff, £115 a month is madness - ask her to call the network and review her account and recommend a price plan

sistafromanothermista

thatsean wrote: »

My first thought is that she needs to sell the car. If she legitimately needs a car then she can get one for 1-2k and have half the money straight away.

Car is needed for care work late at night so needs to be reliable. Her boyfriend fixes for free but the car she has has been in an accident so she would not get a lot for it now. Edited SOA to show this (forgot about the accident)

Have passed onto her about the mobiles as she didnt know she could change tariff!

pinky2681

forgive me if i am wrong on this, but are the figures showing she has -£30 every month? Then she pays £20 to some debt? My worry would be if she went to court and they asked to pay some money back and set up a payment plan then she would be showing as having nos disposable income at all? Would then then look at an alternative punishment like prison? - i'm probabil barking up the wrong tree though!

£100 a week on food for her and 2 children seems alot, i'd cut this down - perhaps to £75 a week (seems resonable to me), that would free up £100 a month. Then i'd look at birthdays / xmas, does she really need £1200 a year? Perhaps work out a new budget? for example:

£200 on children each at xmas = £400
£100 on children each at birthdays = £200

family / friends birthays - cut down to £10 each until debt is paid (harsh but needed short-term) even if she had 10 friends birthdays that would only be £100 andsame at xmas cutting down her presents/birthdays to £800.

£400 saving on presents per year
£1200 saving on food per year

= £1600 paid of her debt per year without cutting back hardly much at all. If she wanted she could cut back further or look at other things as suggested in other posts.

sistafromanothermista

pinky2681 wrote: »

forgive me if i am wrong on this, but are the figures showing she has -£30 every month? Then she pays £20 to some debt? My worry would be if she went to court and they asked to pay some money back and set up a payment plan then she would be showing as having nos disposable income at all? Would then then look at an alternative punishment like prison? - i'm probabil barking up the wrong tree though!



.

This is what i'm worried about. she has tried telling them she can only afford say £5 per week but they have said that's not enough and are not accepting this. I think writing her SOA down yesterday made her realise how much she was spending on non essentials so i can see this changing....

mrsb83_2

The first thing she must do is see a solicitor. She will qualify for free legal advice from a legal aid criminal solicitor based on her income and benefits - there's no need to go to CAB first. You can search for legal aid solicitors through the Law Society website.

The solicitor will help her put together a proposal for repayment, if anything is due. Don't forget that she may not be guilty of any offence, and might not be required to repay.

She must get legal advice.

sistafromanothermista

mrsb83 wrote: »

The first thing she must do is see a solicitor. She will qualify for free legal advice from a legal aid criminal solicitor based on her income and benefits - there's no need to go to CAB first. You can search for legal aid solicitors through the Law Society website.

The solicitor will help her put together a proposal for repayment, if anything is due. Don't forget that she may not be guilty of any offence, and might not be required to repay.

She must get legal advice.

She has been told that in order to qualify for legal advice she must find a solicitor in that field that has funding available. Is this correct? (plus i've arranged for one to call her today @ 12. )