Being threatened with termination because of pregnancy sick days

John_Jizzle

Hi, hoping someone can advise on this.

My wife is 4 months pregnant. She has recently been off for around 6 days. (0 before pregnancy 6 while pregnant)

Her boss has said they are monitoring her sickness and wrote a review. Included in it are lines like this:

Targets:
One absence of no more than two days in the next three working months (as you have a term time only contract this will cover the months of June, July & September 2012)

Whilst I will make every effort to support and work with you during this time, should the targets I set not be achieved, I will refer you to Stage 2 of the procedure. You do need to be aware that continued failure to meet an acceptable level of attendance, could ultimately lead to the termination of your contract.


Are they allowed to threaten her with termination because of her sickness when pregnant? This has really upset my wife and she is already paranoid enough about being pregnant and any complications.

Any advice on what to do? Or what to quote etc.
Its not like she has been off loads - 1 of her colleagues has not been in work in the last 6 months.

thanks in advance

p00hsticks

How long has she been employed by them ?

John_Jizzle

She has been there around 6 years and never had sickness issues before

KiKi

Firstly, don't panic, nor should your wife!

They need to be careful here; they cannot terminate *because* of her pregnancy, but if she were off sick continuously for a significant period of time and unable to work, then ultimately it may lead to termination.

This letter sounds like a pretty standard one. There is a set target (this is very common across businesses - x periods of sickness in x months), and if the target is 'hit', then a manager has to investigate. The outcome of the investigation may simply be "I've seen you've been off, but I know the reason why, so we won't take any action".

But they do have to apply the same process to everyone (although the outcomes of investigation may be very different for someone who isn't pregnant), and they are probably just doing their 'duty' in warning of the possible ultimate outcome (it's probably required in their process that they have to state it).

I don't think you have cause to be worried; I think the letter isn't very helpful, but it does sound like a manager just following process, and not explaining things face to face - or a manager who isn't fully aware that pregnancy-related sickness may need to be considered differently when reviewing it. If they terminated her contract because of a series of one days here and there which are *because* of her pregnancy, they would be on very dodgy ground indeed. If she was off sick continuously for months, they *may* go down the capability route, but if it was proven it was due to being pregnant - and as she's in the public sector - I'd be very surprised if they did that.

*If* anything happens, she should talk to HR as it may be the manager applying the process and being overzealous in the outcome of any investigation - but you're not at that point yet. In the meantime, if your wife is off sick for even one day, get a fit note from the doctor to state that it's pregnancy related (if it is!) - then at least you've proven the reason why.

HTH
KiKi

John_Jizzle

Thanks for the advice. She isn't planning on taking any more days off but you never know when you will be hit with something pregnancy related. Does anyone know the legality of pregnancy sickness?

She is probably going to start her maternity at 30 weeks so she may only work up to the summer hols which will help de-stress her from all this

heretolearn_2

This sounds like an idiot manager not understanding that pregnant ladies do have a different status to usual with additional protection. If it did go as far as an investigation of her attendance according to their sickness policy, which they do have to apply fairly to everyone as in bring the next stage meeting in, at that point it is very unlikely to go further. The bit about dismissal is a standard clause employers have to bung in most letters just in case - if it isn't included and they do dismiss someone it gets used against them at tribunals. But it's a worst-case scenario 'insurance' as far as employers are concerned.

Don't let your wife stress over this, councils are normally pretty good at this stuff.

If its really got to her, I would suggest she has a little chat with HR on sickness policy during pregnancy and find out from them how it will be handled if she has any further absences.

marybelle01

Edit your post - it isn't a good idea to identify your employer! It wouldn't take them two minutes to identify you!

heretolearn_2

ooh yeah - and quick! Firms have dismissed for gross misconduct for even fairly innocuous 'negative' posts about them.

RuthnJasper

Jizzle,

I work for local government and our standard absence policy notes say exactly (almost word-for-word) the same thing. It's likely that this is in no way specifically targeted at Mrs. Jizzle, but a corporate formality that they have to observe for everyone - from the lad who's pulled a few sickies so he can go to Glastonbury, right up to a genuine long-term case who is basically just a head in a jar and who needs to have one day off every week for protein injections into one ear... It is not a direct threat, but a notification of a potential outcome designed, I imagine, more with the former than the latter in mind - much future skiving can be saved with this sort of informal notification to "chancers" but, to be seen to be fair as employers, they HAVE to send it to everyone in every case, regardless of individual circumstance or employment history.

I completely understand how upset you and Mrs. J. are though - corporate formality is rarely respectful of individual circumstances. Although not a mother myself, I know how trying pregnancy can be for a great many women and their wonderful, supportive OHs (like you).

The best thing at this stage is for your wife to have an informal chat with her line manager about what this means realistically for her in her specific case. Your wife's track record sounds exemplary and being ill whilst pregnant is a totally acceptable reason for absence.

Your wife has a right to be accompanied by a colleague or other third party to the meeting. She could also ask her GP for a note as well.

I very much doubt that things will end up going to such a drastic stage - if your wife's employer has an internal staff web-network (I think most local authorities do) she can search on it for useful documents about the absence procedures - hopefully she will find much there (if not, from HR or her line manager) to ease her fears on the subject.

The main thing to remember is that your wife has done NOTHING wrong here. There are laws and processes in place to support her.

I'm sure it will be OK. Wishing you every success with this issue and with your new little "bump". xx

ktothema

Just thought I'd double check this as I was under the impression that pregnancy related sickness must be recorded separately from normal sickness and cannot be counted towards disciplinary. Seems I was right.

This is from EHRC website:
Legal requirements
During pregnancy, an employee absent due to a pregnancy-related sickness is entitled to receive contractual sick pay and Statutory Sick Pay in the same way as any other employee. She will be entitled to receive Statutory Sick Pay provided she satisfies the eligibility criteria. You will find more information on Statutory Sick Pay, including the eligibility criteria on the Department for Work and Pensions website.
An employee absent due to a pregnancy-related sickness is not entitled to be treated more favourably in relation to sick pay. If you operate a contractual sick pay policy, the rules of the policy should apply to her in the same way as they apply to others.
Pregnancy–related sickness should be recorded separately from other kinds of illness. You should not count pregnancy-related sickness towards an employee’s total sickness record. You should not use pregnancy-related sickness absence as a reason for disciplinary action or when selecting for redundancy or for any other detrimental purpose.

Bear in mind that some managers, even local authorities, can be fairly ignorant to equality laws. It's possible the manager doesn't realise pregnancy related sickness must be treated differently. Your Mrs may need to point this out to them.

marybelle01

ktothema wrote: »

Just thought I'd double check this as I was under the impression that pregnancy related sickness must be recorded separately from normal sickness and cannot be counted towards disciplinary. Seems I was right.

This is from EHRC website:
Legal requirements
During pregnancy, an employee absent due to a pregnancy-related sickness is entitled to receive contractual sick pay and Statutory Sick Pay in the same way as any other employee. She will be entitled to receive Statutory Sick Pay provided she satisfies the eligibility criteria. You will find more information on Statutory Sick Pay, including the eligibility criteria on the Department for Work and Pensions website.
An employee absent due to a pregnancy-related sickness is not entitled to be treated more favourably in relation to sick pay. If you operate a contractual sick pay policy, the rules of the policy should apply to her in the same way as they apply to others.
Pregnancy–related sickness should be recorded separately from other kinds of illness. You should not count pregnancy-related sickness towards an employee’s total sickness record. You should not use pregnancy-related sickness absence as a reason for disciplinary action or when selecting for redundancy or for any other detrimental purpose.

Bear in mind that some managers, even local authorities, can be fairly ignorant to equality laws. It's possible the manager doesn't realise pregnancy related sickness must be treated differently. Your Mrs may need to point this out to them.

Yes
But it isn't clear whether the sickness is pregnancy related or whether it's just sickness - normal ordinary sickness - and coincidental to the pregnancy.