HELP! With income support.

epitome

Anubis wrote: »

You asked the OP if the £160 included child tax and working tax credits.

Yes that is exactly what I asked.

The £160 Is her income support payment so would NOT INCLUDE any tax credits! RE READ.

We don't know if she lumped them together, which is why I asked the question.

You also categorically stated that overpayments from official error do not have to be paid back. This is not the case that official errors do not have to be paid back - that is entirely at DWP discretion.

Wrong, it is not entirely their discretion, it is the law that they cannot recover their own mistakes. An exception to this would be that if it was ruled the overpayment was so high that the claimant should have reasonably expected that it was wrong and therefore questioned it then it would be recoverable.
The government were going to try to change the law in their favour by putting it in the welfare reform bill but I don't know if they managed to do this or not. Always appeal an overpayment request when you know you had provided all the relevavnt information and ask for telephone transcripts.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/BeginnersGuideToBenefits/DG_10035707

Direct govdoes not support your view, direct gov is very often extremely vague, and does not reference the law, direct gov does not explain the whole picture and is therefore often useless as a result.

Anubis_2

epitome wrote: »

Yes that is exactly what I asked.



We don't know if she lumped them together, which is why I asked the question.



Wrong, it is not entirely their discretion, it is the law that they cannot recover their own mistakes. An exception to this would be that if it was ruled the overpayment was so high that the claimant should have reasonably expected that it was wrong and therefore questioned it then it would be recoverable.
The government were going to try to change the law in their favour by putting it in the welfare reform bill but I don't know if they managed to do this or not. Always appeal an overpayment request when you know you had provided all the relevavnt information and ask for telephone transcripts.


Direct govdoes not support your view, direct gov is very often extremely vague, and does not reference the law, direct gov does not explain the whole picture and is therefore often useless as a result.

She didn't lump anything together, she was talking about IS. The overpayment is about IS, the rise is about IS.

Whre does the DWP NOT support what I said?

If the overpayment was your fault - perhaps you didn't report a change in your circumstances or gave wrong information - you'll have to pay it all back. If it was caused by administrative error you may be asked to pay it back, particularly if you could reasonably be expected to realise you were being overpaid.

Please show me this UK law that the DWP cannot claim overpayments if it's an admin error. I am sure a few here would be interested to see this, particularly me since I am being over paid at this moment in time and cannot get it rectified.

There are a few here who work for the DWP and I would be interested in their comments on this apparent law. I can then point the DWP to this apparent law when they claim back the overpayments.... (as if)

epitome

Anubis wrote: »

She didn't lump anything together, she was talking about IS. The overpayment is about IS, the rise is about IS.

Whre does the DWP NOT support what I said?

And I was asking her to clarify that point. And BTW how do you know she didn't lump anything together?

It wasn't DWP it was directgov, a very vaguely worded website on 100's if not 1000's of subjects. You should notice they use the word "may"

Please show me this UK law that the DWP cannot claim overpayments if it's an admin error. I am sure a few here would be interested to see this, particularly me since I am being over paid at this moment in time and cannot get it rectified.

There are a few here who work for the DWP and I would be interested in their comments on this apparent law. I can then point the DWP to this apparent law when they claim back the overpayments.... (as if)

Why on Earth should I help you? when all you do is berate me everyday? As you know you are being overpaid you will not be able to avoid having to repay it.

Anubis_2

epitome wrote: »

And I was asking her to clarify that point. And BTW how do you know she didn't lump anything together?

It wasn't DWP it was directgov, a very vaguely worded website on 100's if not 1000's of subjects. You should notice they use the word "may"

Why on Earth should I help you? when all you do is berate me everyday? As you know you are being overpaid you will not be able to avoid having to repay it.

So no law then, didn't think so. Yes "may" have to pay it back... Which shows there is no such UK law that states the opposite.

Did you not advise the OP that they didn't have to pay it back even though they KNOW they are being overpaid? Yet you are telling me different.

Not berating you, but your advice is incorrect most if the time. You even prove that here, by telling the OP "Don't have to pay it back if it was their mistake" when she knows there is an overpayment, yet informing me "As you know you are being overpaid you will not be able to avoid having to repay it"

See? Contradictions in advice? Advising two people completely differently on the same issue of overpayment... Then you wonder why people tell you you are advising incorrectly.

I fully intend paying back btw, I have no intentions not to, I was more interested in this claimed law, since no one here to my knowledge, even those who work for the DWP, have ever stated there is such a law.

dookar

Anubis wrote: »

So no law then, didn't think so.

Of course not, 'official error' is an internal administrative term used by DWP, not a legislative one.

A recoverable overpayment is one caused by misrep or ftd, whilst these are not mutually exclusive from 'official error', if the overpayment is entirely 'official error' it is not recoverable.

Your own link confirms this. In one scenario 'you will have to pay it back' in another 'we may ask you'

One is 'absolutely give it back'. The other is 'can we have it please, entirely up to you though'

Anubis_2

dookar wrote: »

Of course not, 'official error' is an internal administrative term used by DWP, not a legislative one.

Thought so, thanks

Well I have rung them twice, each time they state everything is correct and I have wrote. Money has gone in again today overpaid. I have the overpayment set aside now as its nearing £200.

I am considering sending a cheque in - surely then they will listen? I don't want the money since its not belonging to me, not my "energy" so for me, spending it is not an option.

epitome

Anubis wrote: »

Thought so, thanks

Well I have rung them twice, each time they state everything is correct and I have wrote. Money has gone in again today overpaid. I have the overpayment set aside now as its nearing £200.

I am considering sending a cheque in - surely then they will listen? I don't want the money since its not belonging to me, not my "energy" so for me, spending it is not an option.

Good grief, you didn't even notice Dookar was almost saying the same thing I said. You agree with Dookar but not with me.

The only thing Dookar said which was not inline with what I said was that Dookar said "entirely official error" overpayment are not recoverable. I say that is generally true but there may be some circumstances where they can be recovered, for example where a payment has been duplicated in error it would be recoverable. Where the claimant is aware of the overpayment is another.

Dookar has a habit of saying things are administrative terms i.e. Rapid Reclaim and now Official Error, and "this is not legislative". There is legislation that covers the recovery of overpaid benefits, if there wasn't we could all tell them to get stuffed. Note that no-one even used the term "Official Error" so Dookar has craftily skirted around the issue of law rather than addressed it. :T

epitome

Anubis wrote: »

So no law then, didn't think so. Yes "may" have to pay it back... Which shows there is no such UK law that states the opposite.

LOL

Did you not advise the OP that they didn't have to pay it back even though they KNOW they are being overpaid? Yet you are telling me different.

You said you know you are being overpaid. The OP has said she had a belief all this time until recently that it was normal increase in benefits. Until that point she may not have had to pay it back (depending on why it came about), If she has now confirmed what the overpayment is for and therefore knows the amount is incorrect then it becomes repayable.

Not berating you, but your advice is incorrect most if the time.

Most of the time my advice is correct, I make some mistakes like everyone else, but for some reason you delight in thinking you have caught me out whereas most of the time it's you who are wrong.

You even prove that here, by telling the OP "Don't have to pay it back if it was their mistake" when she knows there is an overpayment, yet informing me "As you know you are being overpaid you will not be able to avoid having to repay it"

She said she thought the payments were legitimate initially. You often ignore the points being made.

I was more interested in this claimed law, since no one here to my knowledge, even those who work for the DWP, have ever stated there is such a law.

LOL,

dookar

epitome wrote: »

Dookar has a habit of saying things are administrative terms i.e. Rapid Reclaim and now Official Error, and "this is not legislative". There is legislation that covers the recovery of overpaid benefits, if there wasn't we could all tell them to get stuffed. Note that no-one even used the term "Official Error" so Dookar has craftily skirted around the issue of law rather than addressed it. :T

Um, no I didn't. I was explaining that no such law could be provided and used the name that the DWP use. It's an important distinction between internal adminitrative terms and those referred to in law, the law governs benefit rules not any government department's internal processes.

I didn't skirt around anything, I explicitly stated no such law would be found.

And doing something twice does not make a habit. I post on here because I have a small amount of knowledge and I like to help people if I can, I try my best to only post in the context of the law because that is the ultimate authority in these matters. I won't apologise for that or explain myself, I'm sorry it's just the kinda guy I am.

Finally, it may have escaped your notice but I was backing you up

epitome

I know you said the same as me, I told that other poster that you had said the same as me, and yet she happily took your word as gospel and didn't even realise that you had backed me up. And continued to say I was wrong... LOL

Sorry for misunderstanding your post, but the way I read it, it doesn't explicitly say you think there is no law, just no law that would use the term 'official error'. BTW I have no beef with you, you are here doing the same as me, offering your knowledge to those who need it. I applaud that :T

However, there are written laws to govern the recovery of overpaid benefits, you said it yourself, where there is misrep or ftd and also something else called overpayments that are materially due. Do you not think those are written down in statute somewhere?