Top up fees request from Adult Social services

cavework

Following on from the threads about selling homes and self funding for Nursing home fees..not residential ..This applies to Nursing home
Does anyone have a family member in a Nursing Home that is subsidised by Adult Social services in their area and has been asked to guarantee a top up this year as the fees have increased?
The reason I ask is that the only asset my parents have is the marital home and Mum still lives there , that is why dad is subsidised , NHS nursing care component ( which by the way will not increase this year due to nurses wages not increasing?) plus Adult Social Services contribution plus a top up already paid by a charity plus his weekly contribution minus pocket money allowance.
I have just discovered that our LA has not increased their contribution to the approved Nursing homes for 2 years and are putting pressure on families who already have relatives placed in these 'approved' Nursing Homes to find the increase in charges...and guarantee payment
Does anyone know if and by how much their LA has increased their contribution for the next 12 months based on increased prices for Nursing homes in their area?
Or has anyone been asked to top up fees yet again by their LA?
Hope this post makes sense

monkeyspanner

I cannot give you a direct reply about this year. But a quick look at Devon would suggest they have not increased their banding subvsidies this year as the figures are from April 2011. Relatives in Devon were approached last year to sign a top-up guarantee for a Dad but resisted as could not afford top-ups. They were then threatened that their Dad would have to be moved to an alternate home and went down the route of looking at alternates none of which were close enough for them to visit regularly. They resisted on the basis that their Dad's health and social wellbeing would be adversely affected if he were moved and the SS backed down. But they are expecting renewed attempts to cut costs from the SS.

It is a difficult situation for you but a top-up is an open ended commitment which you are not obliged to enter into. There are also some factors to consider.
- Although each council has the authority to set their own support bandings these should be reasonable. A group of care homes in Wales challenged a councils rates in court successfully and the council had to back down.
- If there is no alternate care home in the local area that will accept the councils rates then they are under an obligation to pay the difference. So it is to their advantage if they have a top-up guarantee on file.
- The council should if they are considering moving a client carry out a risk assessment which should cover social and medical aspects of the move.

Obviously you want the best for your Dad but in your position I would resist this bullying from the Social Services. The council have an obligation to make support levels reasonable and freezing support bandings is not reasonable when inflation is running at the current levels even if wages have not increased food and utility costs have.

I hope this helps.

cavework

Thanks monkeyspanner.. I played them at their own game and asked for a list of 'aproved' Nursing homes if I moved him and the cost..

I got back a list of 'suitable' homes and the 'average'. cost
They had based the 'average' on a non shared room, which Dad is in at the moment . and put the cost of the Nursing Home he is in as a single room.
I phoned the two 'cheaper' nursing homes on the list and they were fantastic .. the prices would not be relevant to my Dad as he has further needs that they could not cover at the average cost .. also they do not provide shared rooms for men..The rest were far more expensive than where he is now
I have thrown this info back at our LA and pointed out they could not find another Nursing home cheaper than the one he is already in that would suite all his needs.. therefore why are they accepting the top up already in place and asking for a further top up from the family?
It is a huge CON ..

welshmoneylover

cavework wrote: »

Following on from the threads about selling homes and self funding for Nursing home fees..not residential ..This applies to Nursing home
Does anyone have a family member in a Nursing Home that is subsidised by Adult Social services in their area and has been asked to guarantee a top up this year as the fees have increased?
The reason I ask is that the only asset my parents have is the marital home and Mum still lives there , that is why dad is subsidised , NHS nursing care component ( which by the way will not increase this year due to nurses wages not increasing?) plus Adult Social Services contribution plus a top up already paid by a charity plus his weekly contribution minus pocket money allowance.
I have just discovered that our LA has not increased their contribution to the approved Nursing homes for 2 years and are putting pressure on families who already have relatives placed in these 'approved' Nursing Homes to find the increase in charges...and guarantee payment
Does anyone know if and by how much their LA has increased their contribution for the next 12 months based on increased prices for Nursing homes in their area?
Or has anyone been asked to top up fees yet again by their LA?
Hope this post makes sense

I'm always surprised by these type of questions, My ma has alzheimers/dementia and has been in a care home for a few years, we managed to find aloop hole in the system that allowed the house to be kept within the family, but the taxpayer pays for her keep :T

cavework

Hi , The only reason dad is subsidised is because Mum still lives at home.
I am just interested to find out if all Councils have frozen their contributions over the last few years and if they are all asking the families to support the rises that the Nursing Homes have had to apply

clemmatis

welshmoneylover wrote: »

I'm always surprised by these type of questions, My ma has alzheimers/dementia and has been in a care home for a few years, we managed to find aloop hole in the system that allowed the house to be kept within the family, but the taxpayer pays for her keep :T

Ah, a benefits scrounger. You don't seem so keen on other people doing it.

clemmatis

cavework wrote: »

Hi , The only reason dad is subsidised is because Mum still lives at home.
I am just interested to find out if all Councils have frozen their contributions over the last few years and if they are all asking the families to support the rises that the Nursing Homes have had to apply

cavework, AgeUK may know something about this

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/

cavework

welshmoneylover wrote: »

I'm always surprised by these type of questions, My ma has alzheimers/dementia and has been in a care home for a few years, we managed to find aloop hole in the system that allowed the house to be kept within the family, but the taxpayer pays for her keep :T

Ahh .. I see this post is aimed at me , not a reference to your own Ma .
Tell you what , why not give some helpful advice and read the original post thoroughly before acting like some sort of guardian of the benefits system.
My Dad is in a NURSING HOME because he cannot live at home. He is 90 this year and it's not just vascular dementia , FYI he is doubly incontinent , has to be moved with a hoist and has speech dysphasia and cognitive disphasia , all brought on by a sudden stroke 2 years ago.He was not allowed to return home due to his condition
My Mum lives in the house they bought and paid for , she has just had a TIA at the age of 86 and now has heart arythmia and expressive dysphasia but can still manage with help from me to live at home. No ....I don't claim carers allowance for this as I also work . That makes me a tax payer doesn't it?
I'm not looking to 'grab' benefits . If Mum had to go into residential care, then their house would be sold and they would be self funded until the money ran out , I have no problem with this but my Mum wants to stay in her own home for as long as she can..
Now go play with the sheep :mad:

clemmatis

cavework wrote: »

Ahh .. I see this post is aimed at me , not a reference to your own Ma .
Tell you what , why not give some helpful advice and read the original post thoroughly before acting like some sort of guardian of the benefits system.

---

No ....I don't claim carers allowance for this as I also work . That makes me a tax payer doesn't it?
I'm not looking to 'grab' benefits . If Mum had to go into residential care, then their house would be sold and they would be self funded until the money ran out , I have no problem with this but my Mum wants to stay in her own home for as long as she can..
Now go play with the sheep :mad:

Ah. Is that what he means. (I'm too hot to think, I'm hoping the rain comes soon.) Well, don't take it personally, he's currently wandering around benefits-bashing all over the place.

My mother, too, was not allowed to return home, and, like your father, was nonetheless not considered eligible for Continuing Health Care. It's a lottery, a mean and cruel one.

cavework

clemmatis wrote: »

Ah. Is that what he means. (I'm too hot to think, I'm hoping the rain comes soon.) Well, don't take it personally, he's currently wandering around benefits-bashing all over the place.

My mother, too, was not allowed to return home, and, like your father, was nonetheless not considered eligible for Continuing Health Care. It's a lottery, a mean and cruel one.

No worries Clemmatis , if this plonker is so concerned about the Tax payers contribution to elderly health care perhaps he would prefer it if I gave up my small business which employs people and pays for my family, claimed carers allowance (which is a pittance and well below what should be paid) .. oh hang on, don't forget also all the benefits I could then claim as a family on low income .
There would be .6 people with 6 families unemployed , no employers tax or NI contributions anymore from me and a lot less hassle for me

It is a lottery and unlike prisoners the relatives are being held to ransom.
Thank you and I hope it rains soon too :A
xxx

cavework

Quick update for anyone who has found themselves in this situation.
Local CC have now agreed that as there were no choices where my Father should go when he left hospital (I was lucky on the Nursing home he went to) they will pay the top up back dated to April.
They had no right to ask the family for this top up in the first place.
What annoys me is the fact that if an elderly resident of a Nursing home only has an elderly spouse still living in the matrimonial home with no children , they would probably comply with this demand for a top up without question.