Guardian bear Patrick Collinson - Pensions? BTL is perhaps the way to go

Turnbull2000

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2012/may/25/pensions-annuity-stock-market-timebomb

The rapidly growing number of accidental landlords will likely consider themselves quite fortunate a few years down the line should they hold onto these assets rather than sell.

grizzly1911

Turnbull2000 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2012/may/25/pensions-annuity-stock-market-timebomb

The rapidly growing number of accidental landlords will likely consider themselves quite fortunate a few years down the line should they hold onto these assets rather than sell.

There are risks with BTL but they are no worse in the long term IMO especially if you can afford a reasonable deposit. At least you have a degree of control and can make your own decisions.

Sad state of affairs when you can't depend on collective funds, "professionally managed" for a price, with tax relief to do the job for you.

chucknorris

We have a few investment properties but I think the article is being particularly bearish on pensions. Obviously the ftse is down at the moment and not likely to improve much in the short term but I wouldn't necessarily think the 'pension model' will fail in the medium to long term, the ftse 100 has been around the 7,000 level some years ago and there is also dividend income too. I know that's not much consolation for those who are facing retirement soon and don't have enough time to wait for better times, but I think it’s overkill to state that the pension model has failed.

RenovationMan

There are so many things wrong with that article that words fail me.

Thrugelmir

Anybody that walks away from "free money" is a fool.

and your company pays in little, then maybe it's time to dump the pension altogether.

My son recently started his first job at 18. Even he had the common sense to ask me about pensions. As his employer offered contribution matching. So he decided to start saving £20 per month on the basis his employer would match it. Maybe relatively little but at least its got 50 years to grow.

Graham_Devon

BTL in undeniably a good opportunity for some, and has worked for many.

But the article is focusing on the very short term, and is looking at what happened and not looking forward much. It's very reactionary to todays problems, but using them to look at plans over decades.

The key question is... could that article have been written 5 years ago? Likely not. Could it be written in another 5 years? We won't know without being 5 years in the future.

What we do know, is that BTL as a pension is out of reach for the majority. Pensions however, are within reach to the majority.

The biggest problem with the article is that the majority cannot have BTL's as pensions. It's impossible. You need someone else to "invest" in your pension as it were. If everyone is trying to be the provider, you can only supply to those who can't be providers. That will cause a bigger pension headache going forward, creating a much higher divide between the haves and have nots....and thats when the whole BTL as a pension idea will crumble.

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

BTL in undeniably a good opportunity for some, and has worked for many.

But the article is focusing on the very short term, and is looking at what happened and not looking forward much. It's very reactionary to todays problems, but using them to look at plans over decades.

The key question is... could that article have been written 5 years ago? Likely not. Could it be written in another 5 years? We won't know without being 5 years in the future.

What we do know, is that BTL as a pension is out of reach for the majority. Pensions however, are within reach to the majority.

The biggest problem with the article is that the majority cannot have BTL's as pensions. It's impossible. You need someone else to "invest" in your pension as it were. If everyone is trying to be the provider, you can only supply to those who can't be providers. That will cause a bigger pension headache going forward, creating a much higher divide between the haves and have nots....and thats when the whole BTL as a pension idea will crumble.

it's a guardian article, so its target audience is rich people pretending to be poor

Pobby

Just wondering where the people who rent generate their pensions.

chucky

Pobby wrote: »

Just wondering where the people who rent generate their pensions.

I imagine they usually don't.

In general people start their pension or see it as more important once they have saved for a deposit and a mortgage. It must be quite hard deciding which is more important, pension or pay mortgage capital/saving for house deposit.

Those that rent and don't want a pension are probably setting themselves up for some interesting times in later life.

PasturesNew

I've no pension. Not bovver'd. The state pension, on the basis I'll have a house that's fully paid up, will give me more disposable income in my pocket than most of the years I've actually gone out to work.

Pobby

chucky wrote: »

I imagine they usually don't.

In general people start their pension or see it as more important once they have saved for a deposit and a mortgage. It must be quite hard deciding which is more important, pension or pay mortgage capital/saving for house deposit.

Yes would agree with that. If you are fortunate you have a pension, wholly or partly funded buy your employer. There was a time when you could do all of those things. Maybe not a great pension. Well as no doubt you know annuities are not as they were.

My thought is this and it is something we need to think about. If you have just the state pension. Still paying rent. Little in savings and I believe that their are many in that position. The state picks up the bill. Not that I would deny any pensioner, in particular those who were capable of work who have done so.

In my mind Thatch sold off council houses. At one level it could have been positive. Yet she was pretty clear that councils coffers would not build more from their receipts.

Then we launched into a recession based on the insane boom of the mid 80`s. Again mad and indeed loose lending.

In general, at a grass roots level, the historic coming of the high rise flats have become the pits for many. Drugs, crime and social isolation. Pretty well documented. Yet another failed experiment.