Re-post...car repair issues

noofighter

Hi there,

Sorry, posted before but was off on tangents trying to sue this person or that person, so apologies if you've responded before, though I am hoping this time I am taking a more balanced view of things so wonder if anyone out there can help me.

9 months ago, my Nissan X-Trail '55 Plate Sport DCi blew its gasket. Water had been leaking through the cracked head into the cylinders, compression then caused issues with the cylinders and so I had to fork out for all the work, plus refurbed cylinders. Total cost was £2300. The work was carried out at an official Nissan dealership.

1 month ago, whilst undergoing a check on failed aircon unit, the mechanic noticed that there were bubbles within the radiator and warned this could be an issue with the gasket (again). I took it back to the original dealer, who advised "if it's an issue with the same parts as last year, this will be covered under warranty. If not, costs are likely to be a minimum of £400 labour." I agreed, as it was the only way I was going to be able to claim under warranty.

I was then not surprised when the dealer called up a week later to advise of "bad news". Turned out initially there was an issue with the thermostat - instead of kicking in at 85 degrees, it was waiting until 95 degrees then only kicking in for minutes. As a result, the engine was continuing to heat up and as a result the "box", as opposed to the cylinders, had warped. The options were:

1) Put the car back together @ £400
2) Try and do work on the box to make it work, then put it back together @ £750
3) Get a new engine....

What I was expecting was that the garage would accept they did not do a thorough job in the first instance, therefore this would be free of charge. Wishful thinking maybe. My questions for this forum are:

1) Is the garage obliged to check things such as the thermostat when such a significant problem is being fixed (the original head-gasket repair)?
2) Is there really enough of a differentiator within the gasket itself to allow for two unrelated issues?
3) What is my best recourse here - do I accept that this can happen, that there is no liability on the part of the garage and pay the £750 necessary? Do I pay and then consider small claims? Or do I need to seek legal advice up front?

And, related though not directly, a more general question:

4) Does the X-Trail have a trigger switch fitted that turns off the aircon unit when the engine gets too hot?

Any advice is appreciated - need to get it sorted as soon as possible.

Many thx.

forgotmyname

I presume you mean the engine "block" ?

It would be on my list of things to check but depends on the circumstances of the original issue.

If it went in non runner which they diagnosed as a cracked head. Repaired and road tested all fine.

Its possible that that part has failed since.

Usually they will switch off the aircon when it gets too hot, But it usually doesnt help a great deal.

They will ask if you had a thermostat trouble why wait 9 months.

What was the normal running temperature before the 1st breakdown? and since the repair?

Does it have a proper gauge or just a light?

How hot did it get normally? Any odd times when it went higher?

Joe_Horner

Not quite sure how a thermostat is going to "cut in for a few minutes". Once they're open, the only way they can close again is if they cool down.

Not only that, with a previously cracked head (almost always caused by overheating) failing to replace, or at very least check the thermostat would be bordering on incompetence - more the sort of thing you (might) do on a minimum-price DIY bodge of a banger than the standard of work you'd expect from a main dealer on a customer's car!

vaio

I read it as thermostat being the electrical one for the fan rather than the wax one for the water

Joe_Horner

vaio wrote: »

I read it as thermostat being the electrical one for the fan rather than the wax one for the water

Fair one, but still a pretty essential check when repairing previous overheating damage!

noofighter

Thanks, all.

Yes, I meant the block - sorry about the failed jargon!

With the initial repair, the car was a non-runner, it was towed in. As I said, there was considerable costs on labour that I always had question marks over, but that's by the by now.

I was completely unaware of any thermostat issue, the car had been running ok for the subsequent 9 months. Everything only came to light after dropping it in for what was a routine air con check. What has never been cleared up is why the air con wouldn't work properly - it's the strangest thing, as obviously it's utterly unrelated to anything on the engine. The only possible answer I've had is from the AA relating to a possible switch killing it if the engine got too hot. The problem was, as I was driving through an English winter, the need for air con just wasn't there - rarely did I have it on. There was no need to put it on again until March of this year; at that point, I started the process for checking the air con, the rest is history.

In terms of temp, it's just a gauge, which always sat in the middle. The only time it's had problems is prior to the first gasket problem, I've never seen the gauge do anything strange since. Hence I had no indication anything was wrong. It was the dealer who suggested the temperature monitor within the engine wasn't working, and he who told me that after 95 degrees it would open for a short period of time, then close off again.

I've had a chat with Nissan customer service (no, I don't know why either!) but basically explained that if I put a car in as a non-runner with a cracked gasket, surely the dealer would have to test everything linked to it, the block, the cooling system, the thermostat, the radiator, etc.?? I just can't see how they can be asking for more cash, especially on the labour, when it just looks like a colossal oversight on their part.

V frustrating!

forgotmyname

Ignore the aircon for now. That causes the engine to run a bit hotter but usually only when under high load, They suggest not using it when towing caravans etc.

Is the engine running at the correct temperature or not? The thermostat opening then closing again is normal.
Is it electrical or old fashioned wax stat type?

Or is it the cooling fan thats the issue, Cutting in and out at the incorrect intervals.

noofighter

The engine seemed to be running ok, there was no warning light, gauge in the middle, etc. I understood from the dealer that the thermostat is electrical. His comment was that it was shutting off before the temperature decreased, if that makes sense. He claimed it was to do with the flow of water around the engine, not the fan.

Apologies if I'm talking gibberish. I'll certainly be making sure my kids know their way around a car before they hit 17!

mikey72

It's a bit conflicting. The water in the engine will warm up as the engine does, then the wax thermostat in the head will open, and let water circulate through the radiator. Air flow cools the radiator down, and then it circulates back into the engine. The thermostat in the radiator switchs on the fan when the radiator gets too warm becaue of little air flow, such as sitting in traffic, and switches off the fan when the radiator cools. Normally it goes wrong when the flow is low, so the radiator cools quickly but the water does flow back to the engine, caused by a poor water pump, blockage in the radiator, blockage in a pipe etc. This would show as overheating on the temperature gauge though, as the engine lacks cooling water flow, and starts to overheat.

forgotmyname

I was thinking it may have an electronic thermostat.

As you seem to know little about cars, An independant inspection would be a good idea.

Get it all down in writing.

You can go from there.

benham3160

I bang my head on the desk at any mechanic worth his salt who wouldn't renew a thermostat after a "spontaneous" HGF.....

For £10, it's just something ya' do....

Regards,
Andy