Hospital car park fine - I didn't have a ticket

norangeduck

Hi there,
Just wanted some opinions please -
I work at a hospital, and got a private parking ticket today - I didnt put a ticket on my car - fair play - but if they cannot really enforce this charge should I just not pay it?

Thanks!!!

Stephen_Leak

Please read this ...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/16850789#Comment_16850789

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011, 1SE02759, the Peel Centre case.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If this is a free car park or they paid, this is £0.00. Asking for more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you do still owe the CPO anything, then you should write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”. Also advise them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions have been judged to constitute harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with chasing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve done this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are sometimes also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable, to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

Coupon-mad

Seconded, ignore it. This isn't a fine.

Please read the second-to-top sticky thread, 'PPC letters & threats' tells you all you need to know really.

give_them_FA

What is the parking company that issued this charge?

norangeduck

its not a company - its got my hospital's name at the top of the "notice" - I have read alot over past 2 hours, everyone seems to say them same - don't pay, no way, no how!! - prob is they will know who I am - I have a permit in my window, so they will have my details - but could they get access to my bank details through payroll???
Thanks guys

Stephen_Leak

It's a delicate situation, if it's your employer. And you do, strictly speaking, owe them what you should've paid. at the time.

However, by demanding more, they are on very shaky legal ground. For example, NHS Aintree Foundation Trust vs. Perera, Rhyl, 2011, 1UD12840. The judge ruled that the hospital’s demands were unreasonable, were therefore an unlawful contractual penalty and found in favour of the driver. Claimed costs of £1,622.84 were refused.

Therefore, I still suggest you should write to them, enclosing a cheque for the fee in “full and final settlement”, but keep it at that.

bondy_lad

you are taking this far to seriously, whilst all on this site always advise to pay parking fee, we DO NOT advise paying a FAKE ticket,,which you have.nothing can/will be done to you as a result of this,,,only a PENALTY charge notice issued by police/local council/traffic warden is legit and must be paid.i worked for over 30 years in hospital and spent alot of time advising folk not to pay these fake tickets,,none did, nout happened as a result and no way can they take money from your wages,,so relax, hold firm, dont pay and come back here for reassurance anytime,,yes, you forgot to pay,, slap on wrist, but fine you they cannot legally,,,you may get some threat o grams through the posat if they obtain your details via dvla,,once again,,ignore/ comeback here to say what you have recieved,,but at the end of the day it wil equate to loo paper,,please relax and dont worry,,google,, parking charge notice scam for reassurance.incidentally you say you have a permit? do they not then automatically take the car parking fee monthly from your wages????

give_them_FA

By what authority do they say the charge is due? Are you sure it is not a private company acting "on behalf of" the Hospital? That is the most usual situation.

norangeduck

Hey all - actually looking at my ticket - it says they are working in partner ship with the hospital - but it has my local trust logo all over it - so it looks as if its just from my hospital - but in small print it says its on behalf of another company

steve1500

I got the same rubbish from what appeared to be Tesco's the other week - even if it had been still dealt with in the same way

Another thing that sometimes frightens NHS employees is that they will threaten or imply to deduct it from your salary.

payroll will not deduct from staff's salary unless the member of staff authorises or someone very high up usually a Director authorises

LincolnshireYokel

In the light of the recent ruling regarding Simnon Renbshaw Smith, whereby the Judge ruled VCS have no authority to claim damages on behalf of Sainsburys, the advice at the top of the thread is now incorrect. the correct procedure now is to ignore them, totally and utterly. You have not formed an enforceable contract with whatever private company is acting for the landowners, and even if you had, the Other ruling of HMRC vs VCS means the charge is an unlawful penalty for breach on a civil contract.

I always ignore private parking tickets, i ignore every single one, i have a stack of them. The only exception is duly issued AUTHENTIC (ie not faked up) Court Papers, then you need advice on how to defend in court (not hard to do). If you fancy write the definitive killer letter back look here:

http://timkevan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/challenge-to-private-parking-charge.html