What if I dont have the money ???

bebu

hello guys,
I bought a train ticket online with my Credit card for £30 from london to doncaster on eastcoast.co.uk for the 13.37pm, got to the station on time and picked up my ticket at 13.00pm. But somehow missed it and got on the 13.51pm

I was given a fine of £120 which I sent a letter of appeal to the RPSS penaltyfares.co.uk which was rejected and I was asked to pay within 14days of dated.

I explained that I just finished my msc, job hunting and going through a divorce and cant afford the 14days, as I have a little girl, whom am supporting.

The last time, I got such a fine, I had to pawn my laptop to pay off, cost me £65 to retreive my laptop after 28 days.

I know If I leave it and default I would incurr more charges and would destroy my credit ratings, so in my fustration am seeking advise on how to go about this

1. I dont have the money within 14 days
2. IF I default my credit history would be messed up

many thanks

B

somethingcorporate

I think (I am no expert) that fare evasion is a criminal offense and you can be prosecuted (and end up with a criminal record) for it.

This old thread confirms my suspicion: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1844023

fluffnutter

But is it fare evasion? OP had a ticket (just not for that particular train) but they're not trying to avoid paying the fare per se, nor are they (one assumes) depriving the company of any money. They've paid for a seat, does it matter that much that it's on a different train?

The way fares are calculated and booked, in particular you MUST travel on train X, is becoming increasingly complex and the consumer's losing out. Moreover there are really quite unfair stories about people being intimidated into paying 'fines' by overzealous guards despite arriving at the station to find there is no way of buying a ticket, e.g. machine broken/unstaffed ticket desks. Rail companies are coming under increasing pressure to justify these inflexible and, at times, unfair penalties and it's even mooted that the laws around fare evasion are reviewed to take into account our increasingly complicated way of booking fares.

Interesting article about this very thing in the Guardian last saturday (link below). OP, I'd urge you to get some help with this and try to challenge the fine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/may/18/penalised-train-passengers-fight-ticketing-rules?newsfeed=true

somethingcorporate

I defer to my first line, I am no expert

I agree that it may not be evasion but I do not know the specifics that would mean it was!

There may be a more specialist forum rather than consumer rights that are used to dealing with train fare issues.

fluffnutter

Indeed. It probably is a specialist area. There's some confusion whether these 'fines' are simply opportunistic private companies imposing excessive penalty fares that can easily be challenged in court, or whether fare evasion on public transport is actually a criminal offence. No doubt it used to be when British Rail existed, but is that the case now?

Best not to take my word for anything!

somethingcorporate

That thread that I linked to was only a couple of years ago, many years post-BR so I think there is possibility of prosecution and criminal record in some circumstances. What they are I have no idea!

wealdroam

OP, might be a good idea to ask your questions here ===>>>

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=105


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[Deleted User]

Train at 1.37pm... you got their at 1pm AND missed your train? No mention of what happened on the train. Some big holes in this story

mynameistallulah

fluffnutter wrote: »

But is it fare evasion? OP had a ticket (just not for that particular train) but they're not trying to avoid paying the fare per se, nor are they (one assumes) depriving the company of any money. They've paid for a seat, does it matter that much that it's on a different train?

Whilst the OP did have a ticket, it was not valid for that train.

If you compare it to a flight analogy, if you missed the one you were booked on you would not expect to get on the next one, at least without asking the operator beforehand and/ or paying a fee.

CoolHotCold

Unfortunatly I think you'll have to pay.

You paid for a train at exactly X time, reserving a seat.

Regardless of if it's the same company and seats are the same you are legally entitled to pay it.

It's no different than ordering a Pizza on a card, but not accepting delivery of it and then phoning the pizza place three hours later asking for the same order for free.


Point is, perhaps the train at X time was a popular train that was full and you booked a seat which deprived another user of that seat (which deprived the train company of that seat), if you use it or not it doesn't matter to the train company, they still couldn't sell it.


You didn't take any migrating actions to see if it would be ok to travel, either phoning the company, or asking a conductor or ticket agent, or even asking on board the train before it moved that it would be ok.


You are in the wrong unfortunately, and the fact you've already had this happen before should really be no excuse.

fluffnutter

mynameistallulah wrote: »

Whilst the OP did have a ticket, it was not valid for that train.

If you compare it to a flight analogy, if you missed the one you were booked on you would not expect to get on the next one, at least without asking the operator beforehand and/ or paying a fee.

I agree in principle but for a couple of points.

If a private company wishes to invoice someone for breaching their T&Cs they're only entitled to cover any losses they've incurred. If the traveller has bought a ticket, the only difference being that they've caught the next train, and the next train is not at 100% capacity, then there are no losses.

Alternatively, let's assume that this doesn't follow normal contract law and is in fact fare evasion (which probably still exists and probably is criminal). I don't think missing a train and trying to use the ticket for a different time constitutes evading a fare because, clearly a fare was paid.

As I said in my post, the increasingly complex way companies price their journeys doesn't help as no doubt they might be able to argue that a fare on the earlier train was £3 whilst the later train was £4.50. This is not unreasonable but in which case, why not charge the difference rather than impose a penalty fare, or worse, prosecute someone? Before we had numerous carriers, and websites to book tickets, it was the norm to buy a ticket that was valid for all trains on that day (with some exceptions around peak times etc). Now the obligatory 'You must book a seat and it must be on *this* train' is an opportunistic way of generating extra revenue IMO.

It's a complicated area that needs a review. To deem everyone who has a valid ticket but unfortunately missed a train as a criminal is simply not right.