Railway penalty ticket

nonnatus

Hello, just a quick one because I think I'm grabbing at straws .

Can I "ignore" a First Great Western" penalty notic in the same way as I did the parking one?

Daughter (15) is new to rail travel and not the sharpest tool in the box. When arriving at the station on Saturday, massive queue for the ticket office and ticket machine out of order.

The train was at the platform so she jumped on hoping to pay the conductor on the Train. No conductor appeared, but a uniformed man was waiting when she got off and issued a £20 fine for not having a ticket.

Daughter tried to explain there was no way of getting ticket AND getting on train, but he said (fairly enough) she should have allowed more time, bought online ticket, got a later train. I can't really argue with any of that (and have the cheque book out ready to be honest) but wonder if any forumites HAVE in the past??

peter_the_piper

No, there is no way to ignore this AFAIK. Get the chequebook out

sgtbush

there was a way of getting a ticket-- queue up
unfortunatly the fines stand

Jeff_Bridges_hair

She can first appeal it on the grounds of an unreasonable queue BUT they would probably just echo what the guard said about leaving enough time to purchase a ticket.

So pay the £20 and put it down to experience

give_them_FA

Teenager? You could plead insanity........

vax2002

She will be held guilty of the offence on the contract of confession she signed.
These work in the same way as a TV licence offence, they use deception to obtain your details and signature on a confession statement.
The court would use this as evidence and thats thats I am afraid.
If you want a money saving tip, pay the £20

Jeff_Bridges_hair

vax2002 wrote: »

She will be held guilty of the offence on the contract of confession she signed.
These work in the same way as a TV licence offence, they use deception to obtain your details and signature on a confession statement.

And what deception is this then oh wise one?

I can imagine the questions would have been

'Do you have a ticket?'

'NO'

'Ok then thats a £20 Penalty fare please miss, I will need your name and address and will check this out. You can appeal should you so wish'


Where is the deception?

give_them_FA

He should have said, you are not obliged to say anything but it may harm your defence if you rely in court.... etc etc.

If he's investigating what amounts to a criminal allegation- must be if it could be enforced in a criminal court....

Jeff_Bridges_hair

give_them_FA wrote: »

He should have said, you are not obliged to say anything but it may harm your defence if you rely in court.... etc etc.

If he's investigating what amounts to a criminal allegation- must be if it could be enforced in a criminal court....

Penalty fares in the first instance are a civil offence though - not criminal.

I shall ask what should be said from some RPIs I know when I see them though.

taffy056

Just ask them first if they will consider an appeal informally and explain the circumstances, if they then turn it down just pay the £20 and deduct it from her pocket money if you wish.

tehone

Actually there are published stats on how quickly you should be served at a ticket office (I recall its 10 minutes but a quick search should find it), and if the ticket machine was out of order, then it might well be grounds to appeal the penalty notice and and pay just the fare that was owing.

It's worth a try, as ticket offices should be open and staffed sufficiently for people to be able to turn up with a reasonable amount of time before a train arrives and buy a ticket.