Wilting Tomato plants

mils1234

Hi, this is the first year I am trying to grow veg (with a poor track record for houseplants )

I seeded some tomato plants/dwarf beans/chili plants and peppers mid Feb and they are all doing very well except the tomatoes.

I had them in an incubator under lights and they germinated very well. About two weeks ago little roots were showing through their cardboard "pots" so I replanted them into a mix half of perlite and compost. They were under florescent(?sp) lights at night and in the window during the day.

They seemed to be growing very well, at the moment they are about 10 cms tall with some very nice leafs but shortly after replanting them I noticed the leaves looked streaky (light and dark green) but only if examined closely. I then moved them to windowsill in the day and away from the florescents at night so they now have a 24 hour light/dark cycle.

Now they are all starting to wilt and wilt drastically There is plenty of drainage in their pots and they are well watered only every 2-3 days (when the top of the pots are dry). No water flows through so I don't think they are being over watered but the compost feels damp (but not sodden) if I push a finger in so I don't think they are underwatered.

The bigger plants are the worst affective with my smaller seedlings of only 2-3 cms showing no sign of any problems (they haven't been transplanted yet though).

What am I doing wrong?

Sou
(Mrs Slimshady)

Tetsuko

Someone else might know more about this than me and I hope so because I could be totally wrong. But I vaguely remember doing something in college about plant physiology years ago that said something about plants having two separate stages in their respiration. One during the day and in sunlight and one in the dark. Which might mean that the plants were missing out on part of thier cycle being kept constantly in the light. Or I pay be talking rubbish.

Actaully I'll stop waffling and go check

Tetsuko

It could be that keeping the plants in constant light is the thing causing the problem. I tried to find some research that is tomato plant specific. This is the best I could find whilst half asleep...sorry.

"Since controlled environment facilities became available, the
influence of light and temperature on growth and development
of plants has been studied intensively (25). From these early
studies it became evident that a certain number of plants could
not tolerate constant conditions ofillumination and temperature.
The detrimental effect of constant conditions was particularly
noticeable during vegetative development (9, 1 1). In the case of
the vegetative development of tomatoes, it could be demonstrated
that a light-dark cycle or a temperature cycle of a few
degrees was necessary for normal growth. A light-dark cycle with
lower temperature at night seemed to be optimal (24). If cycle
length differed significantly from 24 h, development was again
seriously hampered (10). In terms of Bunning's hypothesis (3),
these results were taken as an indication of the necessity of
synchronization ofphysiological oscillations by external synchronizers
like light and temperature."

Link to the "much cleverer than me" peeps: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1074941&pageindex=1#page

Hopefully there is a real gardener who knows what they are talking about who can put me right >.<

absfabs

My tomato seedlings usually do quite well without artificial light, just in a heated propagator to aid germination, in frost free greenhouse.

Can't quite follow all the techi stuff on artificial lighting at night, but maybe the plants need their rest period in the dark.

(I didn't get mine this morning, so I know what it feels like...):rotfl:

My other thought is that may be the half perlite/half compost mix is starving the seedlings when they are growing fast now? I've never used perlite myself, usually move them straight into potting/general purpose compost when they have their first 2 true leaves.

Good luck!

kippers

How big are your seedlings that are affected? Are they covered? If they are still small, maybe its something called 'damping off disease' This affect seedlings and can wipe out a whole seed tray. If this is the problem then you can buy something called 'chestnut compound' (though i don't think its organic) to water your seedlings either to stop it spreading or to use as a preventative. You can also buy something called 'fine vermiculite' which you can put over the top of seeds when you sow which helps to prevent 'damping off'.

As regards to light..you need to mimick nature when you grow plants, so i should think they need dark as well as light, however, i don't think this is what is killing your seedlings as they wouldn't have grown so far in these conditions (though i don't think it would do your seedlings much good).

Hope i've helped.

Debt_Free_Chick

Sounds like damping off (botrytis) to me too. Look very carefully at the base of the stem, where it enters the soil. Is there any grey mould there?

I think you've kept the seedlings too wet & warm, creating humid conditions in which botrytis thrives. Even with seedlings, I allow the compost to dry out, before watering again. Then, water from the bottom until the top of the compost is damp - remove from the water and leave the pots until the compost has dried out (2-3 days?).

As others have said, 24 hours of "light" is unusual as almost all plants need to experience a normal 24 hour cycle of light/dark.

If you see any botrytis, I would destroy everything and start again, as this is a mould that is likely to spread to other seedlings.

Control the growing environment and avoid humid conditions, especially allowing the compost to dry out between watering.

HTH

stilernin

I went to a lecture about sleep the other week and learnt that whilst plants don't actually sleep, they do have periods of 'inactivity' each day. Unfortuanately, it wasn't made clear if it had to be dark for this to occur. So your memory is good Tetsuko!

I agree with the need to mimick nature when growing plants. Tomatoes need warmth and are better if they are grown slowly to produce stocky plants rather than long spindly ones.

Even in a warm atmosphere, the plant can feel cold if it is overwatered (how much water does a few leaves need?) or just watered with cold water from the mains. So, have water at room temperature ready to use. The weight of the pot will be a good indicator of the moisture in the compost. If it feels very light, place it in a tray of water to take the water from the bottom, but only a bit at a time, enough to wet the bottom 3/4 of the compost. Always keep the surface dry. The roots will get to the water without the danger of damping off around the stem. You can always add more water but you can't take it out. Also I was always told never to water too late in the evening, even when the plants are big. They don't like going to bed with cold wet feet!

Re the light if you have something on a windowsill........... Cover a sheet of cardboard with tin foil, shiny side out, and put it behind your seedlings to reflect the light from the window back onto the seedlings. Not as good as a greenhouse, but certainly stops some of the leaning for the light.

Hope that your babies will be OK, let us all know won't you?

Zazen999

Hi.

They definitely need light and dark - so leave them on the windowledge, and don't keep moving them around.
They probably need food - seaweed based, or some manure [preferably both] - the larger ones are probably at the stage where they need feeding every couple of weeks.
If this doesn't work, and they haven't got the rot - then they probably grew too fast too soon, and you might have to try another lot. I wouldn't put them in an incubator though - they grow well just on a windowledge from scratch, or in a cold frame [glass and bricks from recycling].
If you haven't got a good track record for houseplants - this is normally because of overwatering...you need to research each houseplant/veg separately as every one has different needs and dislikes [it is mainly the dislikes that kill them]. This time of year, once a week is probably enough, depending on the temp they are sitting in

I would never stick a finger in anyone's compost [some hate that], once you get practiced, you will be able to tell what needs water, and when. However, the only way to learn is to have bad experiences, so don't give up.

Plants and Veg are like people, they need stability, food, sun, rain, and sleep! Once you work out how much of each, then you reap the rewards.

And you can't force the seasons [esp when you are a beginner] - so read the packets and plant when it says, how it says.

If you have planted the seeds from an old tomato [the age old recycling trick] beware! Most shop bought toms are F1 hybrids. You can't reuse them, so don't try. They are cultivated specifically for supermarket use.

I hope you don't get disheartened, growing veg is fab - use the internet for research on the best ways of growing them - the best tip though is to plant a few every few weeks, then you don't get a glut in one month in august, and if one lot fails, you have fall back plants to take up the slack. Every gardener has failures, so welcome to the veg growing club!

see below for the F1 hybrid issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid

Andrea

nodwah

A less complicated answer - I often find that my seedings might wilt on the windowsill when there is really strong sunlight coming in and therefore it gets very hot, so move them back a bit if there's direct sun coming in.
I had this the other day- when i went out in the morning is was grey but by the time I came home there was brilliant sunshine beating down and even tho it was cold outside a lot of my seedlings had wilted but they came to again later on.

jennifernil

Tomatoes do need a period of darkness, at this time of year they do best with 8 hours dark and 16 hours light.

To take up enough water when they are growing fast the roots need to make good contact with the compost, so mixing pearlite in it may not be a good idea. An ordinary multipurpose compost is fine and should have enough food in it for about 6 weeks. Do not start feeding with tomato food until the first truss is set, so if you need to feed before that use an ordinary liquid feed.

I would agree that they may be getting overheated on the windowsill, and the roots are not well enough developed to take up all the water they are needing.

Lord_Gardener

Any chance of a picture? So many things can go wrong with Tomato plants!