Car Private Seller Problem

Premier_2

einalem wrote: »

If this is in wrong place please move.....I didn't know whether to out it here or ebay forum




Please be gentle as I feel very silly about the below and looking back I realise I am daft. I will give the background and then my question is at the bottom….sorry its long:
I got some unexpected money (tax refund )
I found a cheap car for £795 on ebay, advert said mechanically great, so made an offer of £650 seller said she would accept £700. I agreed and sent the offer through ebay. I emailed her through paypal a £100 deposit(I stated in the that it was for the car with advert ebay number xxxxxx)
Picked up car paid rest in cash as agreed in ebay messages(I still have these). This was all 7 weeks ago.Car always had very noisy suspension but I just thought it was an old car(2002). 3 weeks later horrible noise……..few more days later broke down………AA towed me to garage. Needed new clutch and gearbox…….paid this approx £580.
Yesterday car made a new noise sounded all souped up like a boy racer. Took for inspection told it needs new catalytic convertor, middle pipe and that the front arms were not the correct ones, hence my funny suspension noise earlier on. Told basically its not worth it by garage as will cost over £700.
Visited seller today(actually the house was a relative of theirs as that’s where I picked car up from and after arguing and persuasion seller came round to talk).
She denies she knew anything about this. Garage says this was there at the time of sale though. After the gearbox went wrong I contacted her and gave benefit of doubt as they denied all knowledge but now this has gone wrong I am unsure. Either way whether she knew or not the advert stated mechanically sound and it is not and garage has said problems were there at time of sale so I can get a report if needed. So I am thinking of taking her to small claims court.
Now this is the bit I am unsure of. After I made the offer of £700 through ebay offer in ebay seller messaged me we arranged picking up but she just ended item instead of accepting offer(didn’t know this till I got home) so ebay cannot help as transaction completed outside of ebay. She is saying there is no proof now that she sold me the car as working she just ended the car item.
So evidence I have:
1) Ebay advert says “mechanically with paypal email stating deposit paid for item number of car.
2) I have the reg doc
3) Messages saying she will accept £700 and arranging sale
4) Bank statement showing I took £600 out of my bank on day of sale
Is that enough proof to prove I bought the car and that she stated it was sound?
I know that whether the problems were there at the time of sale relies on a garage inspection report and I not asking for advice on whether I will win or anything just about whether this is proof she sold it to me as working.

Any advice would be welcome
Please don’t tell he how daft I am as I already know that!

You agreed to buy a £700 banger outside ebay (thereby defrauding ebay of their rightful fees)

You inspected the car before you picked it up. You were aware this £700 banger had noisy suspension yet you still agreed to go ahead with the purchase.

After you drove around for 3 weeks, the clutch and gearbox gave up. Clutches don't give up without any warning within 3 weeks unless they are seriously abused!

You then drive it for another 4 weeks ... and now you find this old £700 banger isn't 100% original.

If the vehicle wasn't mechanically great when you first saw it, why did you buy the vehicle and drive it around for almost 2 months?

Sorry, but there was no indication ever claiming it was 100% original.

£700 bangers go wrong and are expected to require frequent repairs ... and those repairs may be made with non-original parts.

You say you are thinking about taking the seller to small claims. As a moneysaving site I recommend you keep it that way. It costs nothing to think about making a claim, but hard cash to actually file a claim.
I see no basis for a valid claim ... but the only way you'll know if I am wrong is to give your hard earned cash to the court with a claim. If you do, I suggest you have lots more hard earned cash to pay the additional court fees if you continue to pursue the matter and possibly pay the allowed expenses of the seller if the matter ever does get to a hearing stage (and you eventually lose)

Edit: sorry, I didn't realise you were a member of CAG
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?350722

Joe_Horner

What does the garage mean about "wrong arms" on the suspension? How "wrong" and how do they know? That could potentially make the car unroadworthy, in which case it becomes a criminal offence (ie: nothing to do with SOGA) for the seller to have sold it without making the fact it was unroadworthy clear to you.

There is no "ignorance" defence to that charge, and a valid MOT isn't a defence either - although, if she could demonstrate that it passed an MOT AFTER they were fitted it might be acceptable.

einalem

thankyou premier......the suspension was after I bought it(noticed next day)
Actually I complained after the first problem but buyer would not do anything
Clutch was slipping but this was my first manual car so did not realise it
I expect repairs(for example I replaced the brake pads as they were worn that I expect) I don't expect repairs of in total if I fix it again will be over £1200 for a car as described as above.
My original question that I think has not been answered was proof of sale?

einalem

hi Joe, I will need more detail but they are the wrong parts on the arms. The wrong bolts(sorry I am a typical girl crap with car part names!)This seller bought it 6 months earlier and they paid for a big repair(steering wheel problem) I am wondering whether they knew they bought a dud and sold it on. Why buy a car pay over £400 on it and sell it on only few month later but that is just me summising!

vax2002

At what point would you expect the seller not to be responsible for repairs to your car ?
3 months, 6? 18 ?

einalem

Vax 3 weeks to the day of sale the gearbox problem occurred. Gearbox specialist said this was there at time of sale. I think this amount of time is reasonable. 3, 6 18 months no I agree. If it was a dealer sale upto 6 months.

vax2002

Most second hand cars on the road are only a cough away from needing repairs that far exceed the value of the car, especially Renaults.
A £700 car is major banger territory, I think if it drove away at all you did well.
To be honest my opinion is you would be throwing good money after bad trying to sue.

thegirlintheattic

The downside of bangernomics especially if you don't know what you are doing.

You brought the car from a private seller and didn't have it check out by a mechanic before you purchased. I don't think you are going to have any luck in small claims court - brought old, cheap car from PS and didn't take any steps to protect yourself or check the mechanical condition of the vehicle.

Scrap the car (or p-ex it to a dealer if they'll take it).

einalem

Thanks for all the replies :A

On the upside I can't afford a new car and am trying to look on the bright side. I graduate soon and start work so can save up and buy a nice car :j ............however I will be doing a lot more research this time!

thistledome

Joe_Horner wrote: »

What does the garage mean about "wrong arms" on the suspension? How "wrong" and how do they know? That could potentially make the car unroadworthy, in which case it becomes a criminal offence (ie: nothing to do with SOGA) for the seller to have sold it without making the fact it was unroadworthy clear to you.

This is true, but try getting someone to act on it. I bought a car in a private sale which was dangerously unroadworthy (badly repaired accident damage). The police didn't want to know, a lawyer who specialised in motoring cases didn't want to know. I couldn't afford to take action myself so I just coughed up for the repairs to be done properly and learning a lesson cost me £800.

After much badgering, the police came round one day and looked at the car (was quite obvious they were only interested in checking the VIN number in case it was nicked), but they wouldn't do anything. Initially, they were unaware that knowingly selling a dangerously unroadworthy vehicle is an offence and I had to show them the relevant law. They wouldn't even knock on the seller's door to have a word, even though they lived 3 streets away.

OP, I hope you can get someone to help you. This is something that really ticks me off.:mad: