Pay Day Lending - is it ever ok?

Dabooka

jon1965 wrote: »

Sorry Dabooka
I have to disagree with you on this one. People get into debt for all sorts of reasons and usually on come to a forum such as this when they are at their wits end. In that case the first priority is to get them sorted and offer advice. It really doesn't matter what they bought or where the money went, it is not the most pressing issue.
I have some debts and for various reasons can not pay them back at the moment. Today within 30 mins I got two phone calls from the same company making veiled threats and dark warnings of what may happen if I don't call them. If it wasn't for the likes of Niddy and the all about debt forum I would be lost. They have given me the confidence to stand up for my rights and not be bullied.
I do not want to speak for Endora but if you read this thread there are a lot of judgemental and non supportive comments. A rainy day fund is a wonderful idea but not everyone can do that.
If you are on the minimum wage with a family to support how the hell can you manage that?
If you are single and earning 25K but live in London thats still a huge chunk out of your salary
Everyone is different, but everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt when they get into debt and comes here for help.

Again, I'd ask for the post where I, or anyone else has judged someone in PDL trouble in this thread which was Endora's initial point.

Again, I have acknowledged that not everyone can have a rainy day fund or save 10% of earnings; certainly everytime I try it seems to get spent, albeit usually on the thing we're saving for.

Again, I would love to know if you expect 100% of posters to get tea and sympathy irrespective of the reasoning behind their financial woes. You yourself have quoted the minimum wage and family argument, to which I have empathy (not sympathy), but not all the cases posted on the boards are like that. If you're suggesting that is the case then we shall have to agree to disagree, but I genuinely doubt you yourself would really feel that way towards someone who's in hock with a PDL so they could go a stag do etc.

But hey, prove me wrong!

jon1965

dealer_wins wrote: »

Its a shame that more people dont have an emergency savings fund to cover lifes unexpected expenses.

My parents always told me to put away 10% of my net income into an instant access account to cover any sudden expenses.

And if I couldnt afford to put away 10% I was living beyond my means and should adjust my lifestyle accordingly.

Best advise I ever had, and stick to it to this day 25 yrs on, and I would recommend it to everyone!!

That is I think judgemental. Basically this poster is saying there is no excuse for not saving 10% and we all know there can be and is for many people

iolanthe07 wrote: »

Good advice - but to many people the concept of living within their means and saving up for a rainy day is utterly alien.

Might just be my interpretation but it could be taken as insulting

Dabooka wrote: »

Again, I'd ask for the post where I, or anyone else has judged someone in PDL trouble in this thread which was Endora's initial point.

Again, I have acknowledged that not everyone can have a rainy day fund or save 10% of earnings; certainly everytime I try it seems to get spent, albeit usually on the thing we're saving for.

Again, I would love to know if you expect 100% of posters to get tea and sympathy irrespective of the reasoning behind their financial woes. You yourself have quoted the minimum wage and family argument, to which I have empathy (not sympathy), but not all the cases posted on the boards are like that. If you're suggesting that is the case then we shall have to agree to disagree, but I genuinely doubt you yourself would really feel that way towards someone who's in hock with a PDL so they could go a stag do etc.

But hey, prove me wrong!

Honest answer
Yes I do expect EVERYONE who comes here to be treated with respect in the first instance. If that then proves misplaced then fair enough, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
Nothing in this life is straightforward, there is so often much much more behind a story .
If someone gets into a mess because they are a gambler for instance, should we condem them or try to support them in beating that addiction and regaining control over their finances
If someone has mental health problems and that leads them somewhere they shouldn't go...same question
If someone has a job that requires a car and that car breaks down should we condem them or help them
If someones relationship breaks down
etc etc

I do not expect everyone to live on bread and water so they can repay a debt quickly, nor would I deny anyone an occasional treat (within reason) but no I wouldn't think it acceptable to go swanning off on holiday to say Australia leaving payday loans behind, or leaving the country to hide from debt.

Dabooka

jon1965 wrote: »

That is I think judgemental. Basically this poster is saying there is no excuse for not saving 10% and we all know there can be and is for many people


Might just be my interpretation but it could be taken as insulting



Honest answer
Yes I do expect EVERYONE who comes here to be treated with respect in the first instance. If that then proves misplaced then fair enough, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
Nothing in this life is straightforward, there is so often much much more behind a story .
If someone gets into a mess because they are a gambler for instance, should we condem them or try to support them in beating that addiction and regaining control over their finances
If someone has mental health problems and that leads them somewhere they shouldn't go...same question
If someone has a job that requires a car and that car breaks down should we condem them or help them
If someones relationship breaks down
etc etc

I do not expect everyone to live on bread and water so they can repay a debt quickly, nor would I deny anyone an occasional treat (within reason) but no I wouldn't think it acceptable to go swanning off on holiday to say Australia leaving payday loans behind, or leaving the country to hide from debt.

Interesting points you raise; the issue of being judgmental is a subjective one at best, I really can't see how any of the refernces you make are, due to the generics of the statements; to me it's more a point of view rather than anything else, but I take your point.

Insulting? Really? By suggesting that not living within your means is a lost concept to some people is insulting? This one is stretching it a little for me, but fair enough.

Your final point is once again being generic and "fluffy". Treated with respect in the first instance happens to the best of my knowledge. You yourself acknoweldge that no-one shoud live on bread and water (something I agree with, people plan for too meagre an existence at times, which is totally unrealistic) but you have yet to tell me how someone who's in hock with a PDL should be treated when it is for a treat, a pi$$ up, a shiny thing. You use extremes well, i.e. the holiday to Austrailia which is highly improbable, but funding the weekend's session is something that occurs.

How should we treat those posters?

And I am STILL yet to see how anyone on this thread has been judged!!

iolanthe07

Good advice - but to many people the concept of living within their means and saving up for a rainy day is utterly alien.


Might just be my interpretation but it could be taken as insulting

How is my post insulting, and to whom is the insult aimed? It is a statement of fact, and self-evidently true.

endora

Peelerfart wrote: »

Was wondering how long it would be before Niddy got mentioned.

One post from Endora seems to herald the arrival of all things Niddite.

Can you point out where the word 'Niddy' has been used on any of my posts on this thread? You'll find I haven't used the word a single time! Not till this post where I'm replying to yours. :rotfl:

zxspeccy

I once lent my mate £50 and he paid me back a week later and bought me a pint as a “thank you”, which I declined before he insisted on it (you know how these things work). If he didn’t pay me back, I wouldn’t have harassed him for the cash (I wouldn’t have been very happy though), trashed his credit file or take him to court. This is where the difference lies with PDLs, if used correctly and as a last resort then they can be of use to some people. However I have to stress “last resort”, if you begin to rely on them month on month then you have big problems.

edgex

cos wrote: »

It really is a shame; I agree.

Now, step out and meet the people who absolutely don't have the 10% in any shape or form. The ones who covet that last five pound note that means food for the week.

Tell them to take 10p off each pound and invest it in a pension.

surely that leads onto the obvious question;

how/why do they have their finances on such a cliff edge?

jon1965

edgex wrote: »

surely that leads onto the obvious question;

how/why do they have their finances on such a cliff edge?

Which has been answered. People can not get work, or if they can its only 30 hours a week. They have taken wage/hours cuts. They have lost their jobs. Some people have just had big mortgage increases on top of that. Rate of inflation outstrips increase in earnings and the rate of inflation is much higher for some people than others. e.g if you need to drive a long way for your job or loads of other reasons.

Obviously , and I do not deny it, there are some people who struggle to manage finances , again for many reasons,

endora

zxspeccy wrote: »

I once lent my mate £50 and he paid me back a week later and bought me a pint as a “thank you”, which I declined before he insisted on it (you know how these things work). If he didn’t pay me back, I wouldn’t have harassed him for the cash (I wouldn’t have been very happy though), trashed his credit file or take him to court. This is where the difference lies with PDLs, if used correctly and as a last resort then they can be of use to some people. However I have to stress “last resort”, if you begin to rely on them month on month then you have big problems.

The question is, if he hadn't been able to pay you a week later, would you have charged him another £50 to roll over the loan? Would you charge £3 for every time you 'attempt to collect' - up to 100 times in a month? Would you charge 4000% APR?

Herein lies the rub! PD lenders are legalized loan sharks! :mad::mad::mad:

SaLoGo

My OH has used them a couple of times.

Once we bought a new TV that was an amazing offer but the offer ended before payday. So OH got a payday loan for about 10 days. Paid it back on payday, all was fine. The amount he paid in interest was nothing compared to the saving we made on the TV! If it hadn't, then we wouldn't have done it.

The other time was to pay for the deposit for our wedding venue. We knew another couple wanted our date and there was no way they were having it! Payday wasn't for 5 days so we got another payday loan. Cost around £25 in interest. Was worth it to secure our dream venue!

We have used them because don't have any savings at the moment while we are paying for the wedding, and we know we can afford to pay the money back without leaving us short.