Pay Day Lending - is it ever ok?

jon1965

endora wrote: »

Whilst I agree that PDLs should be avoided like the plague (and I have never ever had a PDL), there's a big banner at the top of the debt forum saying it's intended for HELP NOT JUDGMENT!

Posters come here looking for SUPPORT AND SUGGESTIONS. Once they are in trouble with Wonga, QQ or whoever, it makes no difference whether they took out the loan to keep their seriously ill newborn warm or to buy a new gadget. What they need is help and useful tips to deal with the lenders, not judgment. Many people come here because they don't want to tell their partners, parents, children, siblings or best mates about it. They don't come here to be judged. We all have our reasons to do what we do, this is not a moral discussion forum, it's a HELP forum!

It worries me that I am agreeing with someone who names herself after such a nasty wicked evil witch, but alas I have to.
PDL's are bad news and the problem is, the people who can afford them are the people who have a good credit history and often a decent salary.
I do not think anyone really thinks about why they go to wonga or whoever until it's too late. remember if you borrow 400 you have to find 100 just to cover the interest, if you are on even an average salary thats a chunk or am i just old?
Then you get the PDL's that dont take the full amount , just the interest unless you call them between 9 and 5 to pay it off...not everyone can do that .
So people get in a mess, come here or to another well known site and get given trashy info or are judged. As someone said on another site , most people who come here are money savers, so if you need help go to "all about debt". If you want to save money etc here is great, if you are struggling with debt use both

cos_2

dealer_wins wrote: »

Its a shame that more people dont have an emergency savings fund to cover lifes unexpected expenses.

My parents always told me to put away 10% of my net income into an instant access account to cover any sudden expenses.

And if I couldnt afford to put away 10% I was living beyond my means and should adjust my lifestyle accordingly.

Best advise I ever had, and stick to it to this day 25 yrs on, and I would recommend it to everyone!!

It really is a shame; I agree.

Now, step out and meet the people who absolutely don't have the 10% in any shape or form. The ones who covet that last five pound note that means food for the week.

Tell them to take 10p off each pound and invest it in a pension.

jon1965

cos wrote: »

It really is a shame; I agree.

Now, step out and meet the people who absolutely don't have the 10% in any shape or form. The ones who covet that last five pound note that means food for the week.

Tell them to take 10p off each pound and invest it in a pension.

:beer: Well said

CLAPTON

cos wrote: »

It really is a shame; I agree.

Now, step out and meet the people who absolutely don't have the 10% in any shape or form. The ones who covet that last five pound note that means food for the week.

Tell them to take 10p off each pound and invest it in a pension.

I don't understand what you are saying

If these people have absolutely no way of saving even a little each week / month then how do they repay their PDLs?

It's even more important for people with little income to have some savings so they avoid PDLs and avoid paying interest and take advantage of the occasional bargain.

Yes of course there will be some special circumstances where saving is truely impossible but taking this non-judgmnental approach does in fact help them not atall.

jon1965

There are two separate issues here
1) There are plenty of people who do not have the income to save 10%. Lovely idea if you can, you are silly if you don't (yes I admit I was one of those). But some people do not have that luxury (thats me now ). Now these people still get desparate and may approach a PDL , I think it is totally irresponsible of a PDL company to let someone in that position have a loan.

2) There will be people who haven't saved but need some cash. They take out a PDL , realise too late that it is very expensive. Then circumstances change and they can not make the full repayment. Sometimes it goes to the bottom of the list because of other problems. The way some PDL's treat these people verge on the criminal.
However the posters get in the mess and then turn to forums like this, the last thing they need is to be judged and made to feel like a failure, or given duff advice like Cag give.

endora

KingElvis wrote: »

The problem with all these grotty loans is the stain they leave on your credit history, it's like buying a new car a finding a human turd in the boot.

I suppppose though that as they're aimed at the financially baffled, the fact they appear on their credit history is not an issue.

If you can get credit from mainstream lenders, have active CCs, O/Ds, etc. you wouldn't use PDLs would you? They are clearly aimed at those with poor credit so the stain they may leave is largely irrelevant in those cases, more like a 15 year old clunker than a new car I'd say! :rotfl:

Dabooka wrote: »

Of course you are right Endora, however this thread is regarding the bigger debate of pay day loans. At no point can I see anyone on this thread being judged, can you?

And I'm sorry to disagree with you about making " no difference whether they took out the loan to keep their seriously ill newborn warm or to buy a new gadget"; it makes a HUGE difference. The former would be signposted to potentially more relevant help other than PDL, the latter would be told to stop being a numpty and not get into debt over a shiney thing.

To rationale that advice on financial matters should not be judgmental is a joke. I believe the kind of advice received by posters wishing to pay for their first years car insurance etc on a PDL or loan are being done a disservice by not having the implications of their actions made clear.

Just my tuppence worth

I was referring to comments like the one below:

Dabooka wrote: »

I look forward to the day we genuinely get "I needed to replace my iPad so I went to Wonga" thread. Or did I miss one already?!

The point is, people need help to sort out their debts regardless of how they got into debt. Someone asking "should I get a PDL for..." is very different from someone saying "I've got a PDL with XYZ Sharks & Co., can't pay it back and don't know what to do". Most people fall in the 2nd category, in which case all they need is help and ideas for dealing with their situation, not questions regarding WHY they took out the loan in the fist place. Without the benefit of a time machine, there's nothing they could do about that!

Dabooka

So by referencing a hypothetical comment I am being unsupportive and judgmental? How does that work then? As we are talking hypothetical, how would you respond to a poster that is in need of advice after they bought an iPad / some shiney thing?

I think the issues have become blurred; I think it's fair to say most people on here acknowledges that not everyone can get an overdraft from a bank (or indeed would want one) and the marketing and proliferation of these places on the high street makes it all too easy to use. There is and always will be people driven to PDLs as a temporary fix and for those cases and individuals it works well.

However, the point I was making is all too often people get themselves into bother through poor money management and wnating what they can't afford NOW. Cases where PDLs have been used to fund the weekends drinking (until pay day on Monday), for holiday spending money (I'll worry about it when I get back) and the like. Are you, in all honesty, goiing to be equally sympathetic to those individuals as others needing gas money in winter etc?

I can't help but disagree with you regarding "sympathy for all" irrespective on the circumstances. Sometimes it is totally self inflicted and it needs to be pointed out to the individual, and the responses including sell stuff or borrow from friends and family ARE the best way of getting out of the trap. That's not being unsupportive, unsympathetic or judgmental.

jon1965

Sorry Dabooka
I have to disagree with you on this one. People get into debt for all sorts of reasons and usually on come to a forum such as this when they are at their wits end. In that case the first priority is to get them sorted and offer advice. It really doesn't matter what they bought or where the money went, it is not the most pressing issue.
I have some debts and for various reasons can not pay them back at the moment. Today within 30 mins I got two phone calls from the same company making veiled threats and dark warnings of what may happen if I don't call them. If it wasn't for the likes of Niddy and the all about debt forum I would be lost. They have given me the confidence to stand up for my rights and not be bullied.
I do not want to speak for Endora but if you read this thread there are a lot of judgemental and non supportive comments. A rainy day fund is a wonderful idea but not everyone can do that.
If you are on the minimum wage with a family to support how the hell can you manage that?
If you are single and earning 25K but live in London thats still a huge chunk out of your salary
Everyone is different, but everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt when they get into debt and comes here for help.

Peelerfart

Was wondering how long it would be before Niddy got mentioned.

One post from Endora seems to herald the arrival of all things Niddite.

jon1965

Sorry?
Nothing to do with Endora whoever she is (I assume it's a she as I am old enough to remember just what a witch Endora was). If you look at a few of my posts I have mentioned All about Debt as a great site for people in debt, especially when someone said this was not a debt site but a money saving site