Mis-sold Wedding Venue Capacity?

schneckster

Meritaten - exclusive use. We'd be using the other room as well in the evening as a lounge/stroke buffet. They also own the straight tables.

Nicki

Sorry but meritaten is wrong. A verbal contract is just as legally binding as a written one, provided you can prove in some way it's terms. In your case, you have found an email, so have proof that the standard terms of the contract were varied. So your case is quite a good one.

The other important thing to remember is that where there is any uncertainty in a contract, the ambiguity is always as a matter of law construed against the person who wants to rely upon it. So if the standard terms say nothing about capacity and the hotel tries to rely on this to prove that your layout was not agreed, that uncertainty in the contract will by law be construed in your favour, with the email to support your claim that the different layout had been agreed.

LittleMrsThrifty

OP, what would you like to happen? Given you can't turn back time, do you want to find a solution to use the venue, or would you rather have your money back and find somewhere else?

People seem to be saying you should be entitled to your money back, however are you now committed to this venue with time, invitations etc? This will determine whether we offer advice on getting your money back or advice on how to make the room(s) work...

tooldle

I still feel that the numbers are key here. Conversations are always open to intepretation. If you were expecting to get way more people into the room that it reasonably and realistically can hold, it is more a misunderstanding that a misrepresentation. In the same way, one room can be the whole room with partition open, or one of each of the two individual rooms with the partition closed.

sassyblue

schneckster wrote: »

Horace, Tooldle, Sassy:
The numbers aren't the issue and the increase is only about 10%, but yes, they knew the numbers and there have been no changes in that number in all our discussions with them. The fact is, they told us they could do it before we paid, now they're changing their minds. Additionally, they're denying saying it until after we booked, despite an email from them from before. I know there'll be a max number for elf & safety, but if they say they can do it, clearly they know what that number is.

It was a straight question - can you take this many in one room? They said yes if we use layout Y. After getting a deposit, they're now saying no.

This should have them by the short and curlys. Forward or reply to that email and tell them they have made a mistake AND called you a liar, so could they explain, apologise and refund your money....

fluffnutter

tooldle wrote: »

I still feel that the numbers are key here. Conversations are always open to intepretation. If you were expecting to get way more people into the room that it reasonably and realistically can hold, it is more a misunderstanding that a misrepresentation. In the same way, one room can be the whole room with partition open, or one of each of the two individual rooms with the partition closed.

But I don't think it was open to interpretation. The OP clearly expressed his desire to have all the guests in one room with the partition shut. The venue staff agreed (advising only that a fork layout instead of round tables would be required).

I don't see how that can be misunderstood by either party.

As an aside, it's also not up to the OP to assess the room for its suitability in terms of numbers. It's difficult as a lay person to visualise the likely capacity of a room. It's even difficult when everyone's in there to know how many there are, unless you start counting.

It's the venue's job to know how many people their rooms can hold. If there was some doubt on the matter, they shouldn't have agreed to the numbers at the time.

psychopathbabble

I agree that you should be able to get your money back.

BUT you stated at the top of this page the numbers increased by 'only' 10%... that could have been enough to warrant the use of both rooms to adhere to safety regs.

Can you not just call the place and talk to them about your concerns and queries, and say that if you can't come to a satisfactory conclusion then you will be cancelling and requesting refund of deposit.

Horace

OP ask for a face to face meeting with the banqueting manager or the general manager of the venue that you have booked. Take a copy of the email with you. Don't get @rsey with them because that will put their backs up straight away - be polite.

Be clear about what you want - instead of being crammed into one room why not open the room out and see if they can provide round tables and do away with the top table altogether and have a sweetheart table instead for you and your bride. Ask them about setting up the room banqueting style.

You need to have a good read of the terms and conditions of booking too because you mind find yourself forfeiting all or even part of your deposit.

As you have increased the guest list by 10%, I can see why the venue have now said that the room is too small. You might think that at 10% increase is not a great amount but for catering purposes it is. Going back to your guest list - does everyone have to attend for the whole day or could you just invite some to the evening do instead of them attending the wedding and the wedding breakfast? If you are having an evening do at the same venue then you would surely have the room laid out in a different way with less tables and more dancefloor space.

I still think this is whole episode is due to misunderstandings by both parties and not a deliberate act by the venue to cause upset.

schneckster

Horace,
Had that conversation over email - it's all in writing then. They went from "we didn't say that" in their first reply, to "must've been a misunderstanding" in the second reply once I forwarded their email and copies of our notes to them The second reply from them gave me the impression they realised that if we were to take it further, they would almost certainly lose.

Horace, Psychopathbabble,
I think you're getting sidetracked:
1. The number of guests has never changed. Ever.
2. The 10% increase is the difference between our guest list and the capacity of the room with round tables. They told us a fork layout would get more people hence me saying it was only a 10% increase - capacity required, not guests. Reading back, perhaps I could've made that clearer.
3. They knew all this from the very start. They knew we wanted everyone in one room and not across two with an open partition - which in this case is roughly half the wall between rooms. Again, they knew this from the very start.
4. They assured us they could if we went for a fork layout
5. Now they have our deposit and booking, they're going back on it.

The numbers are actually a moot point. They knew it upfront and assured us they could do it. We all know some of that number won't come, but that isn't the point. We booked based on that number and their assurances and wouldn't have booked had they said we needed both rooms.

Schneckster

schneckster

LittleMrsThrifty wrote: »

OP, what would you like to happen? Given you can't turn back time, do you want to find a solution to use the venue, or would you rather have your money back and find somewhere else?

People seem to be saying you should be entitled to your money back, however are you now committed to this venue with time, invitations etc? This will determine whether we offer advice on getting your money back or advice on how to make the room(s) work...

We want this venue. It costs more than others we've seen, but we've always wanted it. As soon as they said they could get everyone in the one room, that sort of sealed the deal, a few minor details aside. If we can work this out, we'd stay there. But they are on notice that we're now watching them like hawks and we won't put up with any more rubbish. We wouldn't want to but we would walk if we had to.

We're committed only by the non-refundable deposit which, because of this, we could get back. The date is far enough away that we haven't done anything else yet, like stationery, photographers, etc.

Schneckster