Has anyone had to get a court of protection? UPDATE and new advice needed PLEASE.

lovesabargain123

Hiya,

Thank you for all your wonderful advice on the post below, it was greatly appreciated and we were all set to go ahead with what you have suggested.
However today, my mum has had a phone call from her sister saying their father has been left approx £80,000 in his sisters will, she died a few weeks ago and my auntie was power of atorney
I'm guessing now my mum will need to get a Court of protection to handle my grandads money. Can this be done by filling forms in yourself and handing them in to the court or do you need a solicitor?
If so, how do we fined a good solicitor? Do they all charge the same? Is one as good as the next? And secondly how much is this, I've tried googling but not getting very far!!!
Thank you once again for explaining it in terms I can understand :-) x
Bit of a long story but I'm after advice for a relative.
Basically her mother died before Christmas but didn't have a power of eterny for their daughter and their father has Alzheimer's . There was no will , no property to sell and between the bank accounts there was approx 12-15 thousand pounds max!
The bank accounts left were 2 in her name (1 at HSBC and 1 at Barclays and a joint account which has now been put in the sole name of him)
As he has altzimers he can not sign to say she can have power of eterny and the banks have said that to transfer the money from her private accounts to their joint account she needs to get a court of protection.
We went to see a solicitor at age concern who said that was wrong and as the money is to go to her husband- the next of kin they should just transfer the money over, and that as the amount in the single accounts was less than £10000 then a court of protection would just be a waste of money!
We are going to go back to the solicitor next week but can anyone tell me how much the court of protection costs and who will have to pay this?
The man living gets a state pension and a small private pension but he does not pay the full fees of the nursing home as this is partially state funded.
Many thanks for any advice you can give x

susancs

My husband was his Uncle's legal guardian as he had dementia and had to go into a care home situation. As his uncle had dementia he was not considered capable of making an informed consent decision about Power of Attorney so the only option was obtaining a C.O.P. guardianship (now called Office of Guardianship). He downloaded the forms off their site and filled them in. He had to enclose the doctors letter stating that his uncle had dementia and all professionals his Uncle dealt with, plus financial details (plus uncle had a house that needed to be sold). He also had to inform all relatives he was seekign guadianship. The forms were long, but pretty straight forward. I can't remember the costs but think it was a couple of hundred pounds. Hubby then got sealded orders stating that he was authorised to deal with finances and the house sale etc. Hubby had to open a guardianship bank account with Abbey National. The court kept most of his Uncle's funds in an high interest account and hubby had to write when funds were low in the guardianship account to have money transfered to pay the care home fees etc. He also had to have an insurance of about 280 per year to cover hime arranged by the courts and this was paid out of the guardianship bank account. The admin fees for setting up the guardianship were also paid back to him out the bank account. He had to keep accounts and send in a return to the court each years. he also had an inspection from COP visit on two occassions to check accounts etc were Ok.

RAS

This is massively confusing.

Why would mother need power of attorney for their daughter? Who is their?

lovesabargain123 wrote: »

Hiya,
Bit of a long story but I'm after advice for a relative.
Basically her mother died before Christmas but didn't have a power of eterny for their daughter and their father has Alzheimer's .

Whose father has alzheimers? Mother or daughter. Who is "their"

lovesabargain123 wrote: »

The bank accounts left were 2 in her name (1 at HSBC and 1 at Barclays and a joint account which has now been put in the sole name of him)

Who is her who has the accounts? Mother or daughter?

lovesabargain123 wrote: »

As he has altzimers he can not sign to say she can have power of eterny and the banks have said that to transfer the money from her private accounts to their joint account she needs to get a court of protection.

Which she cannot have power of attorney? Mother or daughter? On whose behalf does she need power of attorney?

lovesabargain123 wrote: »

We went to see a solicitor at age concern who said that was wrong and as the money is to go to her husband- the next of kin they should just transfer the money over, and that as the amount in the single accounts was less than £10000 then a court of protection would just be a waste of money!

This sounds more like an inheritance issue that has nothing to do with the court of protection??

shell_girl

Capacity is always presumed, so if there is no CoP document stating that her father has not got capacity then it is not up to the bank to decide that he hasn't. Capacity should not have to be proved - unless it has been lost or taken away by the CoP then her father HAS capacity, and the bank are not in a position to decide he hasn't or to withold the money.

The other scenario (sorry I wasn't sure from reading the OP) is that the daughter wants the money that is for her father to be tranferred into an account managed by her on his behalf. If this is the case then she would have to demonstrate to the bank that she has the right to do this- this would be with a document from the CoP.

Where it gets sticky is if the daughter is acting on her father's behalf - talking to the bank to get the money transferred to him. In this situation the bank won't talk to her about anything unless she is named as the deputy. If she has to make an application to the court then she can look at the exemption from fees leaflet at the office of the public guardian website - the fees exemptions are based on the income of the person who is presumed to have lacked capacity, so would be based on her father's income.

sarahs999

I am currently going through becoming power of attorney for my father. It's this that costs just hundreds; Ive been warned that applying for deputy of the court costs thousands, which is why we should all be setting up our powers of attorney now, before we lose capacity!

lovesabargain123

Thank you for the advice.
To make it a little clearer, I'm asking advice for my mum who doesn't have Internet access
My nan died before Christmas without leaving a will and my grandad has been in a home with altzimers for about 5years.
Before my nan died she dealt with all the money and paid the home out of the joint account. My mum ( their daughter) has now been left to deal with things. Before my nana died the bank advised her to get my mum power of attorney , so she could deal with the banks if she died as my grandad couldn't but being a stubborn so and so she wouldn't allow it!
The 2 separate accounts were my nans personal accounts and my mum wants her money transferred to my grandads account whom she has been married to for over 60 years.
My grandad doesn't need any money ( as in cash) as his home fees are taken by standing order and if he has a hair cut or nails cut my mum pays for them out of her own money ( which she is more than happy to do)
We are just a bit confused as what to do with the money that is in my nans personal account as when she died the accounts were frozen.
My mum doesn't want the money for herself , she just wants to finalise everything as its been a long drawn out time since she died as she had had an accident and was then neglected by the professionals and that recently went to court ( an inquest, not a complaint from my mum) so we have only just got the death certificate....but that's a whole other story!
Thanks again, I've been trying to read up on it but don't really understand what she is meant to do so thought I would ask here to see if anyone could explain in simple terms x

lovesabargain123

sarahs999 wrote: »

I am currently going through becoming power of attorney for my father. It's this that costs just hundreds; Ive been warned that applying for deputy of the court costs thousands, which is why we should all be setting up our powers of attorney now, before we lose capacity!

That is what the solicitor said to us, it just isn't worth it as she had less than £10,000 in her 2 personal accounts and apart from the altzimers he's as fit as a fiddle and doesn't take any medication so realistically could live for another 10 years and apparently this needs applying for each year ( costing thousands each time) xx

lovesabargain123

shell_girl wrote: »

Capacity is always presumed, so if there is no CoP document stating that her father has not got capacity then it is not up to the bank to decide that he hasn't. Capacity should not have to be proved - unless it has been lost or taken away by the CoP then her father HAS capacity, and the bank are not in a position to decide he hasn't or to withold the money.

The other scenario (sorry I wasn't sure from reading the OP) is that the daughter wants the money that is for her father to be tranferred into an account managed by her on his behalf. If this is the case then she would have to demonstrate to the bank that she has the right to do this- this would be with a document from the CoP.

Where it gets sticky is if the daughter is acting on her father's behalf - talking to the bank to get the money transferred to him. In this situation the bank won't talk to her about anything unless she is named as the deputy. If she has to make an application to the court then she can look at the exemption from fees leaflet at the office of the public guardian website - the fees exemptions are based on the income of the person who is presumed to have lacked capacity, so would be based on her father's income.

We have told the bank he has altzimers but he can still sign his name, just he wouldn't know what he was signing for.

My mum wants the money to go into her dads account which she has no control over but as he doesn't need money ( his home is paid by standing order and she buys him socks, or pays he's hair cut etc) no one needs to touch it

daska

I suspect that there is some confusion on the bank's part as to what legal status your mum has. They'd be correct to say they couldn't put the money into her bank a/c without her having power of attorney or equivalent.

However, if it's going into a bank a/c in his sole name it should be simple - he's inheriting his spouse's estate, surely capacity isn't relevant?!

RAS

Ok

There are two things -
an inheritance issue relating to the the transfer of money to grandad
an power of attorney issue relating to mum being able to manage things (and not just money) relating to grandfahter's care.

The court of protection has NOTHING to do with the first one. This is about probate. Roughly how much is in each of the sole accounts?

lovesabargain123

RAS wrote: »

Ok

There are two things -
an inheritance issue relating to the the transfer of money to grandad
an power of attorney issue relating to mum being able to manage things (and not just money) relating to grandfahter's care.

The court of protection has NOTHING to do with the first one. This is about probate. Roughly how much is in each of the sole accounts?

There is about 4-5 thousand in each of her accounts ( my nans)
We took the death certificate in to the bank with the details of my grandads account and they took a copy and sent it off to the bereavement team, today my mum had a letter from them saying they needed to have a copy of the court of protection....
Thanks x