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Martyn1981

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Over on the 'British gas warns of more price rises' thread, people seem a little perplexed by more price rises in the pipeline. Well - thats' where all the money has to come from for all these many and varied subsidies, and even cash payments to take a subsidy, come from, so it's no surprise there's no end in sight for home energy price rises whatever happens to world energy prices.

I wasn't aware that the Green Tariff on gas bills (that encompasses all of these subsidies) had recently changed from 4%?

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to post some reference showing how this price change, and those over the last few years are not down to rising world prices!

[text removed by MSE Forum Team]

Mart.

NeverInDebt

British Gas for instance in percentage terms charge me 10% for government obligations including green levies.

Martyn1981

NeverInDebt wrote: »

British Gas for instance in percentage terms charge me 10% for government obligations including green levies.

Is that BG for gas or for electric? Should be 4% for gas, and 10% for electric. (The BG news on the 11th May was about rising gas prices due to rising wholesale gas prices.)

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Media/FactSheets/Documents1/updatedhouseholdbillsjan11.pdf

Mart.

NeverInDebt

Sorry I assumed it was same for both I am dual fuel. I cant check online at mo due to site being down. I will check tomorrow

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Martyn1981 wrote: »

Is that BG for gas or for electric? Should be 4% for gas, and 10% for electric. (The BG news on the 11th May was about rising gas prices due to rising wholesale gas prices.)

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Media/FactSheets/Documents1/updatedhouseholdbillsjan11.pdf

Mart.

jamesingram

NeverInDebt wrote: »

British Gas for instance in percentage terms charge me 10% for government obligations including green levies.

Any idea what the other obligations are in these 4/10% levies other than the 'green' bit, and what the break down is ?

jamesingram

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Yes, it was Blair and Blair alone.

I find the idea that a single individual should be held responsible for a major EU policy, effecting 100s million of people a bit absurd.

jamesingram

grahamc2003 wrote: »

so it's no surprise there's no end in sight for home energy price rises whatever happens to world energy prices.

I may be wrong , but I was under the impression in the UK we pay some of the lowest domestic energy prices in the EU ?
EU energy prices compared
http://www.energy.eu/

Nov2011 so a bit dated but, for average domestic usage
for gas only Estonia, Lativa and Bulgaria are cheaper ,
for electric, 11 out of the 27 EU states are slightly cheaper , so we're below mid table

grahamc2003

jamesingram wrote: »

I find the idea that a single individual should be held responsible for a major EU policy, effecting 100s million of people a bit absurd.

Yes, it is totally absurd (and undemocratic). You should ask yourself how such situations are allowed to exist. - or indeed, enaouraged. Here's some background to the Panorama program mentioned..

The BBC reveals how Blair’s 'multi-billion-pound gaffe’ may triple our electricity bills

I would not have wished it on anyone to sit through last Monday’s laborious Panorama, entitled “Who’s Fuelling the Rise in Your Fuel Bills?”, but two things about it were remarkable. One was that it was the first BBC programme, as far as I know, to admit that electricity from wind turbines is “eye-wateringly more expensive” than that from conventional power stations. According to one estimate cited by Panorama, Chris Huhne’s wish for us to spend £200 billion on renewable energy in the next nine years could triple our electricity bills, pushing millions more households into “fuel poverty”.

The programme’s other startling feature was an interview with Sir David King, formerly Tony Blair’s chief scientific adviser. This confirmed that in March 2007, the prime minister had made “a multi-billion-pound gaffe” when he signed us up to the European Council’s historic commitment that, by 2020, the EU would derive 20 per cent of its energy from renewable sources. What Blair did not realise, as he and the EU’s political leaders argued “until two or three in the morning” without their technical advisers, was that “energy” includes many things, such as gas for heating, which cannot be derived from renewables.

A Treasury official explained to Panorama that they had worked out that Britain could not hope to generate more than 15 per cent of its electricity from renewables. But Blair recklessly signed up to a target which meant that 32 per cent of our electricity would have to come from renewables, which would be fantastically expensive were it even feasible. By the time King and Blair’s other advisers learnt what he had let us in for, it was too late.

The programme ended with the ineffable Mr Huhne assuring us that “the overall effect of government policy will be to lower bills”. Even the BBC was clearly not convinced.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8886498/The-EUs-architects-never-meant-it-to-be-a-democracy.html

Since the actions in 2007, has government policy lowered our bills, as Huhne claimed they would? - that is the pertinent point for this money saving website.

jamesingram

Hi Graham,
It makes a good media sensation , but i doubt 'Blairs and Blair alone' is accurate for the implementation of this policy , though I agree with your concern re. undemocratic action of politicans and the lobbying of those with powerful financial and media interests.

What your view on the fact in the UK we have pay some of the lower domestic energy prices in the EU.
http://www.energy.eu/

Martyn1981

jamesingram wrote: »

Hi Graham,
It makes a good media sensation , but i doubt 'Blairs and Blair alone' is accurate for the implementation of this policy , though I agree with your concern re. undemocratic action of politicans and the lobbying of those with powerful financial and media interests.

What your view on the fact in the UK we have pay some of the lower domestic energy prices in the EU.
http://www.energy.eu/

Hiya James, I've 'misplaced' it now, but was recently looking at UK energy price comparisons, and was surprised to see that in real terms, our prices now, are not much different to 30 years ago. However, in-between we got a couple of lucky's with North Sea oil and gas, and the de-nationalisation of electricity and gas. Giving us some artificially cheap years (decades).

Now that production is falling and we are steadily importing more gas, the price is going back up again, fast!

DECC's targets for renewables circa 2020 are detailed on this link at 15% of energy overall, encompassing 30% of electricity generation.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/meeting_energy/renewable_ener/renewable_ener.aspx

"The Government's Renewable Energy Strategy lead scenario [2] suggests that by 2020 about 30% or more of our electricity – both centralised and small-scale generation – could come from renewable sources, compared to around 6.7% today [3]."

One thing that the Tories are considering, is directing green / renewables money into nuclear, however the Lib Dems aren't happy about that. It may also be 'illegal' under EU state aid rules.

Ignoring the renewables side of the argument, I'm not convinced how the UK can hope to meet CO2 targets without nuclear. But then I'm also not convinced that we can afford to pay the full cost of nuclear electricity nor subsidise it.

One thing I am convinced about though is that if we accept AGW as a fact then bills are going to rise, be it down to CCS, nuclear or renewables.

Addendum, regarding insulation / energy conservation, I'll try to find then post a report I recently read on UK heating energy requirements. It showed that without the implementation of improved efficiency boilers and insulation and DG our heating energy requirements today would be approx double.

Mart.