Debt

Thrugelmir

CLAPTON wrote: »

I also noted that the UK is the 6th largest manufacturere in the world

Here's an interesting link to the BIS website.

Try it.

http://makeitingreatbritain.bis.gov.uk/Myth-buster-Challenge

Very interesting.

dori2o

The problem with manufacturing 9is that other countries are willing to do it far cheaper than we are, upto 95% cheaper.

However, the quality will never be the same. British Engineering cannot be beaten, by anyone. Thats why most F1 teams are based in the UK, our engineering quality is brilliant.

However, companies are willing to accept cheap labour even though the standard is sub quality.

I've seen it in the aerospace industry. I had to teach a group of Romanians the very job I was doing as the work had been transferred to Romania. Their quality of work was nowhere near ours, but it was good enough that the products were accepted.

They came over here and worked for the same salary we were receiving, plkus paid board and lodgings. They returned home far richer than they were before they came over here, and within a month or 2, the job I was doing had gone as well.

At that time I was on about £18500 as a skilled man on the shop floor. Back in Romania, they were on the equivalent of about £6k. Thats a saving of £12.5k per man per year.

We simply cannot compete with that.

ILW

dori2o wrote: »

At that time I was on about £18500 as a skilled man on the shop floor. Back in Romania, they were on the equivalent of about £6k. Thats a saving of £12.5k per man per year.

We simply cannot compete with that.

Fair point, but I wonder how Germany get away with having a high wage economy, with relatively low unemployment and are flogging their wares to the whole world. (Including a hell of a lot of their cars to the UK)

kabayiri

dori2o wrote: »

...
At that time I was on about £18500 as a skilled man on the shop floor. Back in Romania, they were on the equivalent of about £6k. Thats a saving of £12.5k per man per year.

We simply cannot compete with that.

Wait until these same Romanians are complaining that a robot will do their job, not for £6K, but for 12 KWh of electricity a week and all the WD40 it can eat.

In essence, this is the problem. There will always be change and movement away from labour intensive industries, in the pursuit of profit. The microchip; the internet; the robot; the outsourced call centre worker; they are all tools to deliver greater profit to business.

What we haven't worked out is the knock-on effects; how do you redistribute this additional wealth around society.

The theory proposed in the past was that we would all work a smaller working week, and the worry was how we would occupy all our leisure time!

The reality is more along the lines of a work/income apartheid.

wotsthat

dori2o wrote: »

At that time I was on about £18500 as a skilled man on the shop floor. Back in Romania, they were on the equivalent of about £6k. Thats a saving of £12.5k per man per year.

We simply cannot compete with that.

We shouldn't be competing on price alone.

I'm looking for a new car. I think I'd like a BMW - I've two choices - subsidise German working conditions or decline to buy. I'm sure Kia and the like do nice enough cars but they certainly aren't BMW's.

BMW will get my business because they've got the branding right, the quality is excellent (rather than just ok) and after-sales support is good too.

Likewise I'd rather travel on an airline that uses Rolls-Royce engines than Mickey Mouse Air that uses Romanian built units.

kabayiri

wotsthat wrote: »

...
BMW will get my business because they've got the branding right, the quality is excellent (rather than just ok) and after-sales support is good too.
...

You trust BMW; you feel that it's a brand with longevity too. It doesn't feel like BMW are suddenly going to move all development to Korea and Poland, and abandon that core heritage.

There aren't many British owned, British manufactured brands which have that same commitment to long term heritage.

I have some British hifi where everything is made here as a policy. It's expensive but they have been around over 30 years, and their following is strong and worldwide.

If Lord Sugar took them over tomorrow, he would have it all made in China quicker than you can say "You're fired" !

ILW

I am old enough to remember when Rover made prestige cars and Austin etc made the run of the mill stuff. Then some genius at BMC decided they could make all the cars more desireable by sticking a Rover badge on the lot.

The difference between German and UK thinking.

paulmapp8306

kabayiri wrote: »

Wait until these same Romanians are complaining that a robot will do their job, not for £6K, but for 12 KWh of electricity a week and all the WD40 it can eat.

QUOTE]


Wont happen. Wont be long before 6KWh of electricity a week COSTS £6k a year !!!!!!

pqrdef

wotsthat wrote: »

Likewise I'd rather travel on an airline that uses Rolls-Royce engines than Mickey Mouse Air that uses Romanian built units.

RR design and assemble the engines, but you don't know where they get the components from. Probably just as well.

wotsthat

pqrdef wrote: »

RR design and assemble the engines, but you don't know where they get the components from. Probably just as well.

I trust Rolls-Royce to source excellent components. I may have been blinded by branding but I'd expect a company with a reputation to lose to look after the quality side.

Nigerian Jets Inc - probably make lovely engines but Emirates will be happy for the Nigerian military and Mickey Mouse Airlines to try them before buying themselves.