When Austerity Meets Reality

ILW

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

This argument against proportional representation makes me despair. If fringe parties like the BNP seem to be popular, the civilised solution shouldn't be to rig the voting system so they're kept out, it should be to robustly engage with them by all democratic means to expose their woeful policies to the light of rigour and reason. Democracy doesn't mean you get to ignore parties you don't agree with.

This does pose the rather tricky question of "what if a party such as the BNP does get elected? Similar has happened in the recent past.

Or is democracy only a good thing if you agree with the result?

ILW

MacMickster wrote: »

Certainly he would need to look at the mistakes that he has made in the past and implement a plan to pay off his debts over time, but such a plan should not include selling the car and cancelling a training course, as these are required to compete with other IT professionals in the future.

The best way to be able to pay off his debts would be to look for ways to get an edge on his competitors and so increase his future earnings potential, then assign all increased income to debt repayment - not merely cutting spending at all costs.

Can a point come when this person has to admit to themsleves that they are a poor IT pro and no amount of training is going to get them up with the competition? At this point they can accept that they need to live a more frugal existence and get on with their life.

This goes for countries as well as individuals.

michaels

I think we already go to far in this country with ignoring political views we do not support. I would oppose the BNP and its ilk everyday of the week but also stand up for the right for people to hold such views and really dislike that we seem to prevent police officers, teachers etc from supporting such parties. We do not deny a catholic the right to be health minister just because their religion holds against contraception and abortion that are legal, why should we discriminat eagainst others because we disagree with their political beliefs?

michaels

A quick question on Greek election arithmetic.

The two 'traditional' parties that had formed the outgoign grand coaltion seemd to get about 32% between them leaving em thinking they would be way short of beign able to form a coaltion. However they seem to have 149 of 300 parliamentary seats so they would only need to entice a couple of other mps in to their camp to form a govt again. Thus it doesn't seem to me that unlikely that a austerity coaliton could be formed either in the near future or after a second election.

In other words it doesn't look to be the euro meltdown moment that is being suggested.

MacMickster

ILW wrote: »

Can a point come when this person has to admit to themsleves that they are a poor IT pro and no amount of training is going to get them up with the competition? At this point they can accept that they need to live a more frugal existence and get on with their life.

This goes for countries as well as individuals.

Absolutely. If, an individual or country realises that they are useless IT professionals (or bankers) and have no realistic prospects of repaying their debts then they should

1. Default on those debts and declare themselves bankrupt.

2. Accept that they will be unable to get credit for a long time so cannot run a deficit in the future.

3. Seek a better way of earning money in the future.

ILW

MacMickster wrote: »

Absolutely. If, an individual or country realises that they are useless IT professionals (or bankers) and have no realistic prospects of repaying their debts then they should

1. Default on those debts and declare themselves bankrupt.

2. Accept that they will be unable to get credit for a long time so cannot run a deficit in the future.

3. Seek a better way of earning money in the future.

It does appear that the Greek electorate do not see it that way though.

MacMickster

ILW wrote: »

It does appear that the Greek electorate do not see it that way though.

I'm not so sure about that! I believe that if Greece fully defaulted and rid itself of the crippling interest and repayments of its debt then it would currently be running an annual budget surplus.

Unfortunately it has been decreed that this can't be allowed to happen as it would herald the beginning of the end of the geat Euro experiment. Consequently the Greeks are faced with the prospect of ever greater austerity measures with no actual benefit to them for implementing these.

pqrdef

MacMickster wrote: »

2. Accept that they will be unable to get credit for a long time so cannot run a deficit in the future.

However, balancing the Greek budget won't solve the underlying problem of the trade deficit. And trade barriers and tariffs aren't allowed.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

A quick question on Greek election arithmetic.

The two 'traditional' parties that had formed the outgoign grand coaltion seemd to get about 32% between them leaving em thinking they would be way short of beign able to form a coaltion. However they seem to have 149 of 300 parliamentary seats so they would only need to entice a couple of other mps in to their camp to form a govt again. Thus it doesn't seem to me that unlikely that a austerity coaliton could be formed either in the near future or after a second election.

In other words it doesn't look to be the euro meltdown moment that is being suggested.

AIUI, from chatting with a couple of Greek guys at work, the two traditional parties would rather see a new election than form a coalition. They are both used to being the senior party in a coalition with a couple of minnows that can be pushed around.

My money would be on a fresh set of elections. Anecdote isn't data of course.

lostinrates

Re austerity withut growth, i seem to think this was not the plan here? I understood the plan was for growth to come from a private sector. Imo the path has not yet been mase that makes private sector and investors feel able to take risks of the size we need them to take to pull up the slack, and austerity has been some what trimming around the dges, as it can only reqlly be until more private sector growth occurs.

The question is how to enhance private sector growth. Perhaps if we will still disparaged as a nation pf shopkeepers there would be more balanced private sector growth and wealth? But its obvious we are not going back to those days any time soon. Is small business growth the answer? As a small business owner sitting on my hands waiting to decide when and how to expand i relaise i am not playing my part in growth, but the risk is high at this time. Or do we look to higger business to further grow now? How do we acheive either of these ends?